14 nations commit to protect oceans
nationalgeographic.co.uk
nationalgeographic.co.uk
One should expect sustainable whaling to be top of this groups agenda.
I'm willing to make a compromise though. If we can hunt human children, your children, then I think that would be fair. Either we can kill any sentient animal for money/sport or none of them.
I'll see myself out.
I think you're grossly understating the extent of aboriginal whaling. Reading numbers off the table at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling#Whaling_catches_by_loc... and cross-checking with the "by country" writeups below: Canada kills a thousand whales per year, about 2:1 narwhals to belugas, with "subsistence" amounts of bowheads. Greenland contributes about equal numbers of belugas and narwhals, and half as many minkes. Alaska contributes almost as many beluga kills, but also about a hundred bowheads a year. Faroese pilot whale kills number another ~800 per year. Any two of these four outstrip the scale of all commercial whaling.
Let's dispense, too, with the delusion that these aboriginal peoples "don't take more than they need and they use the entire animal":
> Hunters in Hudson's Bay rarely eat beluga meat. They give a little to dogs, and leave the rest for wild animals.[15] Other areas may dry the meat for later consumption by humans. An average of one or two vertebrae and one or two teeth per beluga or narwhal are carved and sold.[15]
Aboriginal whaling is no less reprehensible than the commercial variety. Hell, at least commercial whaling is mostly constrained to operating at profit.
> Combined, they represent 40 percent of the world’s coastlines, 30 percent of the offshore exclusive economic zones, 20 percent of the world’s fisheries, and 20 percent of the world’s shipping fleet.
At what resolution? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastline_paradox
Or, if rivers have large deltas or estuaries you could get very different measures.
In the list of the article here, Norway in particular tipped me off, as it's incredibly jagged coastline can be lead to great resolution-dependent differences.
If it doesn’t, I am worried about how much this commitment is real.
I don't believe that's true and make an effort to persuade them otherwise. But at the very least I'm sure that many Japanese people (based on what they have been taught) earnestly do not see an incongruity between whaling and a desire to protect the oceans.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling#Whaling_catches_by_loc...
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Canada
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_whaling
They generally eat it, make art, and perhaps use parts for traditional clothing.
Japan on the other hand (a) has no Indigenous peoples following their traditional ways, (b) often violates the waters of other countries, and (c) has no basis for scientific inquiry (as ruled by the ICJ):
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan
You don't see Intuit fisherman in the Southern Ocean off the coast Antarctic, but you do see Japanese fishing boats.
That makes things worse. You're defending something like a couple of million people for killing 4510 whales, while vilifying a country of 125 million for killing 2080 whales.
So, (a) it makes no difference to the intelligent creatures whether they are killed in the name of "science" or "traditional ways" (b) whales have extensive ranges, so going where they live vs. waiting for them to come to you are both just as bad, and (c) there is enough scientific reason for everyone to stop killing whales.
This is a pretty good article on it through the lens of Australia.
https://www.commonground.org.au/learn/aboriginal-or-indigeno...
> Japan on the other hand (a) has no Indigenous peoples && following their traditional ways
What is done now in Japan, regardless of whether we want to apply 'indigenous' to the current people or not, can hardly be called "traditional":
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Japan#Modernization
Or did the ancestors of Japan's current whalers used to travel down to Antartica / the Southern Ocean in previous centuries? If the Japanese want to fish in their territorial / EEZ waters, then that is something that could be more acceptable. But that is not what they're doing AFAICT.
If the Intuit travelled thousands of miles and used vessels with commercial-grade refrigeration, then I think plenty of people would object to their actions as well.
The thing is, though, the latter arrivals were some 2~3000 years ago. For comparison, the Yayoi incursion not only predates not only the entire traceable history of the Inuit people, but also that of the (unrelated) Dorset culture that they're believed to have driven out. I'm not sure there's a principled metric by which Canada's whalers are "Indigenous peoples following their traditional ways" and nearly all Japanese people aren't.
Let's give the people that haven't destroyed their own environment a bit of leeway. IMO, a marker of intelligence isn't building rockets, it's not shitting where you eat.
You don't need to be a card-carrying PETA vegan to find it quite off-putting to eat self-aware social animals with some of the world's largest brains.
There's no problem with eating these animals if it's a cultural norm. Many indigenous peoples in Africa, eg the Bari of Sudan, eat monkeys and other apes. Whales have been hunted in Canada by aboriginal peoples since time immemorial. It doesn't matter how smart or social you are. Someone or something unsympathetic is going to eat you, and it just might be humans who don't share your (actually our) ethical ideas.
There's nothing wrong with killing gorillas and eating them as long as we don't imprison them for life in overcrowded farms like we do with chicken, pigs and cows.
Killing animals while they're free in their natural habitat is fine, or at least it's 1000x better than what we currently do.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/02/asia/japan-first-whale-catch-...
Anyhow, as some of you said: it's probably better then nothing
But these aren't the only problems the ocean is facing. Resolving other issues will help maintain the health of ocean ecosystems.
It's likely wishful thinking but possibly it will be harder to justify new coal mines etc if enough of these individual agreements are accepted. :shrug:
Yes and Australia has been actively working against that while laughing about the plight of the islanders who're most affected by climate change "time doesn't mean anything when you're about to have water lapping at your door" - Home Affairs Min. Dutton https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-11/dutton-overheard-joki...
At COP25, it was Australia (along with Saudi Arabia and Brazil) who were blocking progress.
> The 14 members are Australia, Canada, Chile, Ghana, Indonesia, Japan, Kenya, Mexico, Namibia, Norway, Portugal, and the island nations of Fiji, Jamaica, and Palau.
> The group of 14 looks nothing like the usual assemblage of international leaders recruited for global initiatives. France, with its vast array of overseas territories that gives it one of the planet’s largest ocean footprints, was not invited. Nor were the powerhouse players of Russia, China, or the United States.
> “Negotiation with that category of country isn’t all that easy,” says Vidar Helgesen, Norway’s former Minister of Climate and Environment and the driving force behind the project. “We decided to get a group where high politics wouldn’t get in the way and we could be focused on the task.”
> The idea, Helgesen says, was to gather a coalition of the willing—a like-minded group of countries with the ocean deeply embedded in their culture and history—to conduct discussions that would be underpinned by science.
I think this looks like a good move. IMHO, a big problem with environmental challenges is this idea that a solution has to be some all-or-nothing affair, and because of the perceived insurmountability, nothing gets done politically. Getting a group of nations to do something because they _need_ to seems like a good fire under people's asses to get the ball moving.
A: South America
So at least Japan is on board.
Plenty of people started businesses on what may be termed blind optimism and succeeded.
I think it even helps a little to underestimate the obstacles in innovation - otherwise one might not attempt it in the first place. But just a little, because diverging too far from reality brings its own problems.
Optimism is essential to progress.
Starting a wider conversation and raising awareness will probably help a lot more in the long run.
There's very little evidence they care that their fishing fleets are destroying fish stocks halfway across the world.
So they respond by devaluing their currency to remain competitive even against the tariffs, which is equivalent to paying the tariffs rather than passing the cost on to the customers. But then your own citizens don't feel the pinch from the tariffs and you can maintain them indefinitely, or even increase them, until you get what you're asking for.
That assumes you're a large enough player to get them to respond that way, but smaller players can form coalitions.
Bingo.
I mean, right this minute we're all ignoring a literal concentration camp in China in the name of not upsetting our supply of cheap gadgets. Good luck getting support over something less tangible.
> I don’t know what a Global Warming Plan would look like, but I know that any first world government who tried it would find themselves promptly removed from power and a newer consumer/polluter friendly government installed amongst rabid cries for new iPhones and maintaining current niceties of life.
1 million metric tons = 1 million cubic meters. That's only a 100m cube of water..
England isn't going to reforest. Germany isn't going to reintroduce all the wildlife they hunted. And the peoples of neither nation have paid reparations to the Earth (for good reason, they can't afford to). If I were running China, the right thing for me to do is to strip the Earth dry, and then a century later when I'm rich demand that "All nations must do their part".
After all, it's not like anyone will make me pay for everything that happened a century ago. So you'll either have to make me not do this or you're going to have to suck it up. China's navy doesn't have the ability to protect her shipping fleets so that's her problem.
And, mind you, in any developing nation, there will be people who raise these rhetorics and try to make it an issue of national pride or something. Because these people have much to gain by keeping workers in dangerous buildings, bulldozing national forests, or depleting fisheries.
China didn't raise 400 million out of poverty by accident. Lives were paid. Intentionally.
We also reduced the Bison population from tens of millions down to ~150,000.
So no different really.
Perhaps the best way for us to preserve land for trees in America is to buy Weyerhaeuser stock.
Developed nations should pay them not to.