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Comment by postingpals | Hacker News Reader

Is it time we question whether or not we actually need these groups? Or at least whether they should have this much power? The CIA, the NSA, even the FBI sometimes, I feel they all have horrific stories attached to them and it's questionable whether they need government backing, military power, incredible finances, formiddable spying tools, and incredible secrecy to protect people.

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The stability and success of a nation in the modern world basically requires an active approach in achieving national security.

Complex obstacles require a complex approach towards solutions so it makes sense to have multiple communities working together.

And sure, horrors occur but we don't get to know what horrors are avoided.

Word salad. What horrors were avoided by the El Mozote massacre, exactly?

I find it absolutely ridiculous that the news uses headlines such as "sources from FBI say" (or any other US spy agencies) as though they are the real source of truth, whereas reports such as these show that they should be treated with a greater amount of suspicion. But you know what, people still fall for it all the time!

Tax-paid lairs, serving god-know-whos interests.

Yup, it's amazing how intelligence sources get passes 100% of the time. "High ranking CIA source says..." is assumed to be 100% true.

That's a pretty big assumption that is no doubt abused.

I love Matt Taibbi's example where the FBI got a search warrant, based on a news article that they were the source on. Talk about compromised incentives.

>Yup, it's amazing how intelligence sources get passes 100% of the time. "High ranking CIA source says..." is assumed to be 100% true.

That 100% are just not true, every respectable paper and or journalist know that there is quite a big chance that your are being used, not just from Services but also from Company's, just have a look at Elon's Hyperloop and the massive Fan-hype (even in the University Space (which is kind of super-sad))

If you look at the people who started the CIA & FBI, and the sorts of things they got up to in the orgs' early days, it becomes pretty clear that their purpose is not their publicly stated ones. Of course, that's also why it will be next-to-impossible to get rid of them.

It’s a simple game of competition. If your competitors have them, then you must have them too. The situation is not dissimilar to nuclear weapons.

In 2020, people seem to forget that the Cold War happened and that the KGB, GRU, etc. existed. Most of these outrageous CIA actions were done in the context of combating the Soviets.

In short, you will probably never be able to remove the role of intelligence from geopolitics.

But this logic doesn't explain why we need the NSA to spy on its own citizens? I mean, sure if someone else is spying on you, you need to spy on them. But if someone else is spying on you, you definitely don't need to spy on yourself.

Sure but that’s just a typical example of abuse of power. The initial comment was about dismantling such institutions.

Well I also questioned whether they should be given as much power, since it can lead to abuse. Would be as simple as changing a law so they can no longer abuse their power. And if it's not that simple, maybe you have to question why.

I would assume that NSA spying is used primarily for insider trading and other forms of market manipulation.

>Most of these outrageous CIA actions were done in the context of combating the Soviets.

"In the context of combatting the Soviets" isn't a good excuse. If these acts were done to combat the Soviets it may have been worthwhile, but using the Communist scape goat to force your will on the world, which is what the article is claiming happened, should not be common foreign policy.

I didn’t say it was a good excuse, I said that was the context in which it happened.

With that logic, you can cover for any thinkable activity 'because soviets'. We don't like european politicians? Bam, because soviets. Cause millions of deaths around the world? Worth the cause, 'coz soviets. Anybody does anything but exactly what we need them to (which in many cases would mean self-harm)? Commie ruskie, bam!

Change soviets with terrorists for 21st century.

Can you stop being unnecessarily hostile? As I already said, I was explaining the rationale for the actions, not justifying them.

Take your low-effort outrage elsewhere, please.

The article details numerous situations where the Soviets were not the rationale, merely the scapegoat. That's what led me to respond, I don't see how the fake rationale changes anything.

>>"In 2020, people seem to forget that the Cold War happened and that the KGB, GRU, etc. existed. Most of these outrageous CIA actions were done in the context of combating the Soviet"

If this article have a message is that those dirty wars were against the poor people living in those countries, not against the KGB.

And what is the excuse after the cold war? Because nothing has really changed.

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