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Comment by okareaman | Hacker News Reader

I am a recovering nitrous oxide addict who once set himself on fire, so I understand the terrible predicament he found himself in. Many people do nitrous recreationally as a party drug, but there's a reason they call it 'hippie crack.' Some become obsessed with it

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The dangers of nitrous are hypoxia, B vitamin depletion, nerve damage, dissociative effects and extreme compulsion to use. I was in treatment with a dentist's wife, who really screwed herself in a bad way with all of these effects and could hardly walk because of nerve damage to her feet.

I forgot to mention, it's a rich man's drug, another way it's similar to cocaine. I probably spent $150,000 on cases of whippets (25 boxes x 24 whippets to a box.) My first reaction to Tony Hsieh and nitrous was "He had too much money for his own good." I ran out of money before I could kill myself with it.

here's a writeup that really stuck with me for the last decade about the surprising level of organized crime in selling nitrous at music festivals:

https://www.villagevoice.com/2010/07/06/inside-the-nitrous-m...

Headshop owners who sell nitrous to obviously addicted people are generally not good citizens. I'd guess they make most of their profit from addicts like me. I only got cut off once after a 2wk/$10k run when I was almost too sick and incoherent to make a purchase. Every other store gladly kept selling to me when I was in that condition.

It’s (comparatively) very cheap in bulk tank form.

But that’s much harder to come by for most people.

The small whippets cartridges... you’re paying for the steel, getting a gas in there and markups. If they filled it with room air, it would cost the same.

I could have looked for tanks to save money, but I surely would have died that way. I could control intake with cartridges because the limiting factor was that you had to keep cracking them. A case of 600 whippets one after another would last about 5 hours, so 2 a minute. I've heard too many stories of people dying with tanks.

Forgive me ... I am completely naive regarding this subject but find these descriptions both fascinating and confusing...

Do I understand: if you're on a whippet bender you have to do a thing every 30 seconds ?

It seems like that would interrupt and greatly diminish whatever pleasurable effects the substance was giving you ... in fact, it sounds somewhat stressful ...

You can put 2-3 into a dispensing canister at a time, but yes, every 60-90 seconds it requires interaction.

This has probably saved a lot of lives, tbh. It's hard to suffocate yourself if doing so requires motor skills.

In Australia, their paramedics have Penthrox tubes that have an anesthetic in them.

The idea is that the patient can self-administer, but if they over do it, they get too messed up to operate the thing until it wears off again.

Yes, it’s a fleeting rush. I’ve probably done nitrous 5-6 times over a couple of decades but I can see the allure.

Cracking whippets is like popping bubble wrap. It's a pleasant repetitive motion that becomes part of automatic muscle memory after a while. It becomes a meditation, like praying the rosary.

Matt Dike famously said the worst thing for an addict is unlimited resources.

Glad you're still with us.

Thanks. I've made a remarkable recovery with a lot of help. I'm sharing this because the subject came up with Tony Hsieh and I know he and I weren't the only ones abusing nitrous. My email is in my profile if anyone out there thinks they have a problem with it and would like to talk about it. I'm raising awareness of the dangers here. It's seductive when you read that philosopher William James had epiphanies with it and want to have them yourself (I'm pretty sure he abused it to.) It took ahold of me pretty quickly. This has been difficult for me today because I'm triggered by thinking about it. I can taste it and feel it. But maybe I warned somebody off from it.

Did you seek professional help on your own, or did someone force you to get help? Sounds like Jewel tried to make Tony get help.

At the point I bottomed out ended up in a homeless shelter. My willful and stubborn way wasn't working, so I made a conscious decision to start doing what people told me to do. I surrendered, if you will. Family and psychology pros got me into a long term treatment program. Fortunately, I had two family members who hadn't given up on me.

The documentary of Steve-O's (from Jackass fame) descent into madness via nitrous oxide and other drugs was terrifying. The way he would convulse and then have conversations with his Mom and talk to the voices in his head? The whole thing left me speechless.

Steve-O Demise & Rise [MTV Special]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1ulzP2XUOg

He mixed a lot of drugs. It's a wonder his heart didn't give out.

That doc was so dark to watch, he was just pure self-destructive.

I think one "advantage" could be that it's an invisible drug. People don't know that you're doing it, unless of course you have neurological or organ damage, but even then it could be explained away.

You start getting incoherent after heavy use, even when not currently using. People who know you notice. Jewel said she left an event early because she was upset to see Tony was acting that way. It takes 4-6 days to recover from a heavy run, including getting feeling back in your nerve endings. Taking B vitamins help.

How much is a "heavy run"? Another commenter mentioned buying many cases.

Some rather serious side effects have been described in a vegetarian (probably already b12 deficient) after just an hour of continuous exposure.

While that was in a clinical setting, it can be quick if you’re already at risk.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

I'd need 4 to 6 days to recover after doing 2 cases or 1200 whippets. I'd be extremely sick for the first 2 or 3 days.

I’d go further and say everyone taking nitrous oxide should be taking b12 supplements.

Absolutely. I have pernicious anemia now (need B12 shots) that I didn't have before, at least not diagnosed when younger.

I have done nitrous before - what about it makes you more likely to be set on fire? Just risk of passing out while smoking a cigarette maybe?

It's an oxidiser; it can make things which are normally not flammable become flammable, as well as accelerate burning.

It's amazing how fast it makes things burn. They sell nitrous at auto stores for super charged engines but I never did that because it's very dirty

Nitrous in cars cools the chamber allowing you to add more fuel/oxygen. It’s also not for “super charged” engines specifically.

That's not how I understand it. You may be referring to some other use I am not aware of. I'm not a car guy.

"A nitrous oxide engine is an internal combustion engine in which oxygen for burning the fuel comes from the decomposition of nitrous oxide, N2O, rather than air. The system increases the engine's power output by allowing fuel to be burned at a higher-than-normal rate, because of the higher partial pressure of oxygen injected with the fuel mixture."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide_engine

Supercharged usually refers to an engine with a supercharger, which is a crankshaft driven pump used to force more air into the engine. It is similar to a turbocharger, except a turbo is driven by exhaust gas.

N2O is typically used with a normally aspirated gasoline engine. It's just another way to get more oxygen into the combustion chamber.

https://www.racingjunk.com/news/drag-race-101-its-a-gas/

You can absolutely run N2O with a turbo or supercharged engine. I ran a NXExpress rig on my '99 Eclipse GSX back in the day (with a big turbo).

They didn't say it couldn't be used with a super charger, they said it wasn't exclusively used with a super charger.

This same effect can be accomplished by spraying cold water into the air inlet, and this is used in some high end cars and jet engines. It also cools hot points in the engine, letting you push the compression higher without causing premature detonation.

Does mean you have to refill a water tank too, but it also lets you get more power without producing any more NOx, which are bad for both the environment and people.

The nitrous itself also has more oxygen in it than air does.

It is a nice complement, as compressed air from a turbo or super charger is very hot. The nitrous cools it down. People also use a water or alcohol spray for a similar reason.

While it will be cooler, it also reacts better than O2 from the air. Especially since you’re injecting 100% N2O instead of 79% inert atmospheric air.

I used to crack a bunch of cartridges into a large plastic bag such as an outdoor trash bag. I didn't realize N2O was an accelerant so I was smoking. The tip of the cig fell on the bag and it went up in a flash. Fortunately it burned quickly and only singed me.

Interesting. I guess I always assumed most gases are flammable

There's plenty that aren't but it's safer to assume they could be.

It's a better oxidiser than oxygen - also the reason for nos tanks in cars.

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