Urgent appeal to Paul Graham, etc.: Please help kickstart Common Lisp revolution | Hacker News Reader

Urgent appeal to Paul Graham, etc.: Please help kickstart Common Lisp revolution

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7 pointsHexstream34 comments

Is.... this a joke? This just seems like shameless self promotion of no real value.

This is dead serious.

Do you find the idea of funding Common Lisp Open Source abhorrent? Because that is the primary focus of my work and my life.

Do you think this would have more intrinsic value if someone else promoted it for me? And I have never understood the hate against relevant self-promotion. Why don't you want value creators to promote their work themselves?

No and no. If someone else promoted it for you, I still would've flagged it as spam.

The problem with self promotion is not with you, or any one in particular, but in a tragedy of the commons. I don't want HN to be filled up with hundreds of requests of self-promotion.

Not so "dead serious": As an alternative to the "Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster" the "Church of Lambda" could be founded (see https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/churches-religious...). To find believers and members should not be a problem, one might think.

On the fundraiser page: https://github.com/sponsors/Hexstream

> Common Lisp is the best programming language in the world!

Why? What an absurd, arrogant, misinformed and misguided claim.

I would like to review your Common Lisp credentials.

You don't need to be a race car driver to debunk a sales man trying to tell you "This is the best car in the world!".

My advice to you is to be humble, you're clearly passionate about Lisp and turn that into a positive thing. Saying Lisp is the best language in the world is a sweeping statement, something a snake oil salesman would put across.

Common Lisp really IS the best programming language in the world, though. This is a statement of fact.

We could do a better job of proving it and demonstrating it to the world, and it would be easier to do it faster with funding.

I wish you all the best convincing people its the best language in the world.

Thank you.

I am aiming to help make Common Lisp (or a close descendant) a top 5 programming language by 2040.

I believe this is eminently achievable given proper approaches, and funding me would certainly help towards that goal.

https://twitter.com/HexstreamSoft/status/1213964177657794577

"Lisp isn't a language, it's a building material." (Alan Kay, see e.g. http://www.paulgraham.com/quotes.html?viewfullsite=1).

I first used Lisp more than thirty years ago (back then on the VAX), but I still don't understand why it is supposed to be the "best programming language" (as some people continue to claim). It is not even obvious to me how to recognize a programming language as the "best" one. The advantage of the simple syntax is paid with several disadvantages. Praising Lisp for its simple syntax is like praising a protein for its simple structure consisting only of a chain of amino acids.

Simple syntax is just one of countless crucial features.

Here is just a trivial sample: https://twitter.com/HexstreamSoft/status/1334220825281654785

Fairly extensive advocacy pieces already exist, and we need even more sophisticated ones, and better infrastructure overall, and it would be much easier to do that with proper funding.

It does not help to "prove" an assertion by making further unsubstantiated assertions.

Why is Lisp the "best programming language"? How can we recognize a programming language as the "best" one at all? Why do "we need even more sophisticated" extensive advocacy pieces? What "better infrastructure" is required for what purpose?

> It does not help to "prove" an assertion by making further unsubstantiated assertions.

Exactly, so stop doing that, then. Including sealioning.

> Why is Lisp the "best programming language"?

First, the best programming language is Common Lisp, not just any Lisp. Second, I already gave hints towards answering your question above, but you do have to do your homework if you want to even have a chance at understanding.

> How can we recognize a programming language as the "best" one at all?

Easily, if you understand the best programming language and see that all others are blub.

> Why do "we need even more sophisticated" extensive advocacy pieces?

Because then we can just point non-believers like you at it to automatically win all arguments.

> What "better infrastructure" is required for what purpose?

Have you even read the Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser pitch? I encourage everyone to do so, and urgently.

https://github.com/sponsors/Hexstream

Is this in all seriousness your answer to the questions? And yes, I looked through your rather chaotic pitch.

It is chaotic, I'll give you that. This is a direct reflection of the chaotic state of the Common Lisp community and of all the hard work that is going to be required to bring it to a state of dignity.

I am actively working on bringing about this change, and although I am already fairly effective despite the constant and increasingly blatant sabotage and almost total lack of funding, I would be quite a bit more effective with at least some minimal funding.

For instance, 1000$/month would be effectively infinite money for me at this time. I'm not exactly asking for the moon here...

Why not looking for a job and doing Lisp in the spare time?

The point of the fundraiser is to enable me to concentrate almost all my energy on Common Lisp Open Source instead of having to divert energy elsewhere due to financial concerns.

Given the overall context, the direct and substantial benefit to the Common Lisp community of me getting at least minimal funding ought to be obvious.

The most immediate effect of me starting to look for a job would be to significantly reduce the energy I can spend towards Common Lisp Open Source.

Basically, I already have the dream job, but now I just need to get paid at least a bit. Even a small fraction of a "real" salary would be truly life-changing!

A very bold claim considering https://cv.hexstream.expert/#education.

"Computer Programming at Collège de Bois-de-Boulogne (completed 4 terms out of 6) 2003 – 2005 (2 years) Montréal, Québec, Canada

Grade: Best of my class in programming

[...]

I introduced and explained the concept of an event loop to one of my computer science teachers.

I dropped out for personal reasons.", see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coll%C3%A8ge_de_Bois-de-Boulog...

Did you mean to present an argument of some sort?

Yes, that you should be better able to justify why you are the right person for the job; after all, it is you who is asking for money and questioning the competence of others. In any case, you are not able to convince me, and on the basis of the other comments one can assume that this also applies to others. It's not enough that you are very convinced of your own abilities.

My CV and other writings and most especially my work itself pretty extensively justify that I'm the right person for the job. Of course, it's probably pretty hard to tell without significant Common Lisp expertise...

My CV: https://cv.hexstream.expert/

My work: https://www.hexstreamsoft.com/

Also, you should probably ask Paul Graham what he thinks of college dropouts...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Graham_(programmer)#Educa...

"Graham received a Bachelor of Arts in philosophy from Cornell University[7][8] (1986).[9] He then attended Harvard University, earning Master of Science (1988) and Doctor of Philosophy (1990) degrees in computer science.[7][10] He has also studied painting at the Rhode Island School of Design and at the Accademia di Belle Arti in Florence.[7][10]"

I can't immediately find where in his essays he talked favorably about college dropouts, but there is this: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1110248609545703425

It states: "Successful college dropouts are not rare in Silicon Valley. The current president of Y Combinator is one." This is merely an observation of his and says nothing about his personal attitude towards dropouts. But you have addressed him in your appeal, so take your chance.

I am assuming he would not say that if he deeply hated college dropouts and did not want to acknowledge their success.

Maybe I missed a section in the post that provided any argument for why there should be a revolution at all.

Granted, if there were a revolution, tfa did make the case for why he should lead it.

Thank you for your interest.

I believe you are looking for the Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser pitch:

https://github.com/sponsors/Hexstream

Oh, buddy. Time to get out of your bubble.

No, my bubble just needs a bit of funding so I can be even more effective at contributing to Common Lisp Open Source.

I won't be donating, since I don't believe that what needs to change in software development is as simple as a choice of programming language--I'm sure you've heard that one before. Best of luck with your endeavors regardless!

The Common Lisp Revival 2020 Fundraiser is mostly oriented towards people who understand the value of Common Lisp. Thank you.

I understand its value as well as I believe I need to in order to do good work. I'm sure you hold beliefs that are different from mine, and I think that diversity--and the fact that we can talk about this stuff honestly and respectfully--is what makes our industry great.

I am creating tons of Common Lisp community resources that definitely help attract a more diverse audience to Common Lisp, incidentally. (Not everyone is comfortable with the "pop up in chat and ask experts" model.)

My CV offers a lot of pertinent details about my work: https://cv.hexstream.expert/

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