Depression May Be Foretold in How We Remember | Hacker News Reader

Depression May Be Foretold in How We Remember

nytimes.com

110 pointstokenadult16 comments

This finding on memory in relation to depression may help build a research base that will refine the "three good things exercise" advocated by researchers who participate in the "positive psychology" movement.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.159...

I've found it easier to find YouTube videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOGAp9dw8Ac

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2eRqDreo78

than brief online articles about the three good things exercise, which I learned about in a book by Martin Seligman. The point of the three good things exercise, of course, is to provide an intervention for people so that they can alter how they form memories of life experiences, and thus prevent mood disorders.

I have lived with depression since my father died when i was 8 and this is the first time i've heard of over general memory. It makes sense on so many levels that it is mindblowing that no psychiatrist ever told me something about it.

To me this was the most helpful link ever provided by HN.

Interesting article, though I'm surprised they don't mention cognitive therapy. One of the core themes in cognitive therapy is that emotional problems are caused by mistakes in how we think. One of those mistakes is known as over-generalisation and cognitive therapists help clients by teaching them to recognise when they're over-generalising and to replace those thoughts with more accurate, less distressing ones.

It's a sound idea, too. I haven't done cognitive therapy but learning to catch myself saying things like "never" and "always" and replace them with things like "sometimes" has proven remarkably useful.

That's one of the other "mistakes" according to cognitive therapy: all-or-nothing thinking. I'm glad it's working for you. I think the key word in your comment is "learning". Like almost everything, the way we think is a result of habit and that's good and bad news. Bad because habits are difficult to change, but good because they can be changed.

Cognitive therapy isn't just for for people experiencing difficulties, I'd highly recommend it to anyone interested in self improvement. Hackers especially I think would find it interesting because it's almost like a set of hacks for your mind. Two books in particular I'd recommend to anyone who might be interested:

- "Feeling Good: the new mood therapy" by David Burns

- "The guide to rational living" by Albert Ellis

Somewhere on the web there's also a fascinating video of a talk between the Dalai Lama and Aaron T Beck (considered to be one of the founding fathers of cognitive therapy along with Albert Ellis). It's surprising how similar cognitive therapy is to some types of Buddhist meditation

I would like to add a few more pointers to that list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thich_Nhat_Hanh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness-based_stress_reduct...

A total anecdote, and I know the research is ongoing, but as a person who had rather worse depression because of an underlying problem that has since been treated, I would have a to say a comparison between how I used to feel about events, versus how I feel about them now, is spot on like this article says. Before my treatment, my memory of the past at that time (err, looking now back at it) I very much over generalized problems or overly categorized events as "typical" for how such events always are. Today, as I write this, I don't seem to look back at any of it like that, at least, not as much.

My experience as well. I apologise for the blatant blog self-promotion, but I tried to say this exact thing a few years back:

http://github.com/raganwald/homoiconic/blob/master/2009-05-0...

I was remembering that blog post as I read the article. The researchers (as described by the NYT) seem to be testing a hypothesis about generalization vs. specialization regardless of whether the subject generalized was positive or negative, whereas you propose a strategy of generalizing the positive and specializing the negative. Do you remember what led you to that strategy? I presume it is still working for you. The researchers might benefit from the competing hypothesis.

I was led to this theory by the book Learned Optimism. I call it a theory because Dr. Seligman claims int he book to have come up with a hypotheses: (1) That you can measure a quality he labels optimism and pessimism, and that (2) optimism is a predictor for performance. He claims he then tested his theory and it was confirmed. That being said, confirmation by the theorist is much weaker than independent confirmation, so if you're a stickler for the scientific method, research this and see what current thinking has to say about it.

Seligman's second theory is even more interesting, he claims in his book to have cognitive therapy that improves optimism, and to have confirmed his second theory. Independent confirmation would be great for this one!

Do you have a link for the HN submission of it? If there isn't one, could you make one please ;-)

I seem to recall the gist of it; but I couldn't find your submission of it to HN (and faux-submitting it didn't bring up a previous submission).

I just read your essay and just wanted to thank you. I ordered the book and are looking forward to read it. Regards

This kind of sucks to read ... I read so much/process so much information nowadays (blogs/programming books/facebook/twitter/pictures and videos from places I've been etc etc) that I've actually changed the way I remember information nowadays to this more 'over general model' ...

I did this because I was initially spending so much time trying to remember specifics about things I read or saw that I wasn't able to get through it all effectively. Now if a topic comes up, I might not be able to give solid details about it, but between FeedDemon starred items, twitter faves and delicious I can get back up to speed about the thing I was trying to remember (delicio.us is a godsend) ... and though I've only addressed data/information ... it has become the default way I remember things now (life experiences etc)

It just seems to be a more efficient way to process information, but to find that it could aid depression is a bit of a downer ... but I guess I'll just have to work on changing the way I think about life experiences and take time to smell the roses more.

From the Hagakure:

'"Matters of great concern should be treated lightly." Master lttei commented, "Matters of small concern should be treated seriously."'

I always took this to mean that matters of great concern are anxieties, which should be generalised, and matters of small concern, about which we are depressed and push away, should be treated specifically.

Quotes from the Hagakure are hands down amongst the most mis-interpreted quotes, very often because they are being presented completely out of context and of course due to the very different cultural background and times they were written in.

For example:

Among the maxims on Lord Naoshige's wall there was this one: "Matters of great concern should be treated lightly." Master lttei commented, "Matters of small concern should be treated seriously." Among one's affairs there should not be more than two or three matters of what one could call great concern. If these are deliberated upon during ordinary times, they can be understood. Thinking about things previously and then handling them lightly when the time comes is what this is all about.

(http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Yamamoto_Tsunetomo)

Note that this is Yamamoto's interpretation of what two other people said, not their explanation of what they said. I was merely offering an alternative interpretation.

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