I tried the first no-kill, lab-grown chicken burger
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
Here we see a journalist in its natural habitat, trying to foster a sense of outrage where none at all exists, in the hopes of luring its prey to share the article. If it succeeds, it will be rewarded with eyeballs aplenty, which, in the cold harsh winter, will prove critical to the success of its offspring.
"some animal rights activists[who?] argue it perpetuates an unhealthy obsession with eating animals."
I'd like to see a source on which "animal rights activists" this journalist is referring to. PETA? Random Twitter users?
You can find a small minority against literally anything if you go scrounging.
I've only been vegan for about 2 year now, but my current view is that meat is just gross. Being lab-grown only solves some ethical aspects, but is still gross.
Yes, agree that maybe some vegans would go back to eating meat if it was lab-grown. But my guess is that most vegans (anecdotal going from the ones that I know) would not eat lab-grown meat, just like people in general probably wouldn't eat lab-grown human meat. I mean, if human meat is 'no-go', why would animal meat be ok?
This is all from the perspective of being vegan for ethical reasons. If someone is vegan only for health or environmental reasons, then maybe they won't care so much. But my experience is that people that go vegan for health/environment quickly change to be more ethically focused.
> Cells taken from “source” chickens are cultured in a laboratory
And then there is also the discussion whether lab-grown meat actually resolves the ethical issues. I mean, in order to grow the meat the lab has to initially source some cells from animals. Any vegan for ethical reasons would oppose that.
Also, no - vegans for ethical reasons don't necessarily have to oppose sourcing cells from animals. For some it would be enough if the sourcing was done cruelty-free. But you're right that the ethical issue is still there and I'm certain that some people will be still opposed to that.
Ehh, I'm not so sure after having worked at a highly acclaimed Vegetarian/Vegan restaurant; they are both so calorie and fat deficient that they devour anything highly processed with as much saturated fats.
Which when solely looking at this from a chef's lens, and not the absurd typical Silicon Valley froth money-grab that lab grown meat is, it really projects itself out as a bad solution to a problem no one really expects to solve with their product. It diverts a lot of money into certain startups and makes for good Marketing and PR, but I've had impossible burgers and never really wanted to try it again as its something that never stood out as a better product. Burgers are such low hanging fruit, too; try making a stroganoff from tempe or seitan, its horrible if you've ever had the real thing.
I can tell you you right now that Livestock Ag has a critical role that cannot be displaced when done correctly, ironically to be able to maintain soil viability in fields where heavy feeding crops like tomatoes, or brassicas have to be rotated with to maintain viable yields for organic and biodynammic farms. Something these vegans and vegetarians are entirely oblivious about since most have never worked a day on a farm in their life, yet think they're 'part of the solution.'
Lab grown meat is just another one of those panacea sounding things you'd expect would be the norm in the 21st century, like a flying car, but are entirely impractical and only used to divert resources from more impactful things, like Farmer Education outreach that tells them about the monetary gains to be had from growing sustainably/organically and using seaweed in their feed to offset CH4 emission, and how to build sheds/barns to use that for syngas production and compost.
Eat Just has raised $220 million since its inception [0], just think about the amount of progress towards those ends we could have made with just the funds that one startup has raised.
0: https://agfundernews.com/singapore-grants-eat-just-worlds-fi...
Kind of harsh. There are a lot of vegetarian farmers in India, who I'm sure are not presumptuous enough to think they are 'part of the solution'. For some meat eaters the idea of vegetarianism brings out strong reactions. If you are guilty just deal with it. People have their own reasons for being vegetarian and most don't judge and don't care.
Granted, but it must be noted how dire the situation is in India's Ag program and its why they're out there protesting in Dehli due to the Government threatening their subsidies/price guarantees to just survive. But, I agree, vegetarian diets are far more common due to poverty than ideology outside of most developed nations.
I don't have strong reactions as a carnivore (omnivore, really) I have them as a former farmer, chef and a person that has an obsession with how broken the World's food supply is and how it affects Humanity/Society and our Ecosystem as a whole.
The truth is that most vegetarianism/veganism isn't more ethical despite the rhetoric as most vegetables are grown using conventional Ag practices and tons of inputs, using migrant labour that often results in a significant maladies for them. Furthermore harvesting of anything but a small scale garden will ensure that many animals are killed in the process as Ag machinery like combines are constantly catching up animals in the process. This happened to me several times.
My first year of apprentice in Biodynamic Ag was really eye-opening and even though that is the most holistic form of sustainable Agriculture, and often a mainstay for more affluent vegetarians and vegans in the EU, you soon realize that that reliance on solely a typical person's plant based diet has its own dire consequences--massive water use, contaminated soil due to pesticide usage and soil nutrient depletion to keep up with demand.
Whereas an omnivore diet can acquire those essential amino acids, fats, and proteins from a relatively low-impact and sustainable sources like chicken eggs.
In short, their is no perfect diet and a plant based one has lots of unintended consequences that go beyond just the person who chooses to be one. Obscuring the facts behind rabid and uninformed ideology isn't going to change that.
(not a representative sample of vegans in any cultural, demographic, or ideological group; does not necessarily reflect all global vegan public opinion)
However, this would depend heavily on how many animals, if any, are harmed to produce it. Lots of vegans won't eat the impossible burger and don't consider it vegan because one of the chemicals in it was tested on rats before FDA approval, even though the number of animals harmed is O(1) - i.e., the marginal amount of animals harmed from eating an impossible burger is 0. I'm vegan and think that view is idiotic but whatever.
I think there are two different categories of vegetarians, the one who do it for moral reasons and the ones who do it because meat is kinda icky.
For the first category, if the meat is produced in an ethical way (lab grown), then eating it is no problem. But lab grown meat is just the same as real meat so if you didn't want to eat it before, why would you want to eat the lab grown version?
A 1-3 split between the two categories seems to plausible as far as I can tell.
What are fish made of where you live?
The story I’ve heard from CSAs with ethically raised animals is that they all have stories of former vegetarians ordering meat from them, exclusively. So there’s at least a little flex in the other direction.
Or, you know, the journalist did their job and contacted relevant interested parties for comment, and included their perspective for the benefit of readers who would look for that perspective.
I'm no biologist or environmental scientist. To my naive understanding, it's going to be a good thing. It means that we'll meddle with the animals less, reduce the environmental impact, and also make high-quality, fresh meat more accessible.
No more Chef Ramsay proffering a piece of filet mignon and saying, "Now, this, is the Rolls-Royce of steak".
We're still arguing if GMOs will be toxic to humans in the long term, and now we want to grow a whole chunk of animal in a lab, and proclaim nothing's wrong with it?
And lab-grown meat should also use fewer hormones, reducing human intake of animal hormones.
Lab-produced milk will be another important product.
Our species is slowly entering the bio-tech stage. How will daily life change?
I predict engineered mites that clean your home at night, consuming or carrying away every speck of dust. They will clean furniture, beds, pillows, and mattresses. By out-competing common dust mites, they will prevent many cases of childhood asthma.
Large-scale deployment of mites will collect pollution dust from cities. They will remove the metal nanoparticles from vehicle brakes that trigger asthma in children who grow up near highways. They will collect the persistent lead dust that accumulated in cities while leaded gasoline was in use, reducing childhood exposure to lead thereby boosting intelligence and reducing crime for the next generation. They will remove the microplastics that steadily fall from our synthetic clothing, food packaging, equipment, carpets, and building materials. The health problems of microplastics are still unknown. They may be the cause of declining male fertility.
Instead of complaining about vaccines and 5G, ignorant people will complain about the pheromones used to control mites. They'll say things like, "I'm sick because of the pheromones!" as the mites remove pollution that actually would make them sick.
Clothing fibers will be grown in a lab. Cashmere will become nearly as cheap as nylon. Once you've worn a cashmere outfit, cotton will feel like something a caveman would wear.
Washing machines will have different enzyme options for different kinds of materials. For example, you will buy clothes made with fiber X and use detergent X which dissolves everything except fiber X. Washers won't need heat or mechanical abrasion, so clothes can last longer or be made more cheaply while still lasting long enough.
No more brushing, just chew a dental candy once a day. It has bacteria that consumes plaque & tartar and viruses that kill acid-producing mouth bacteria.
Dynamic balancing of intestinal fauna will solve a myriad of undiagnosed chronic health problems. Also no more farts. I also predict a pill that will make feces emerge as small smooth fragrance-free pebbles. Paper consumption will plummet, but that won't affect the environment because paper fibers will already be grown in a vat, using sugars made by algae. Sugar is the feedstock of the world's industry. Algeria becomes the world's leading producer of sugar. Climate change is reversed by the adoption of a sugar-based concrete.
Data storage will become DNA-based. All of Google's data will fit in a drop of DNA preservative. Copying data will be cheap. But reading is slow, with throughput scaling with the number of reader chips. Data theft is done with mosquito drones that literally suck data juice. Surveillance is done with "tick" robots that record their sensor data to a DNA sac.
Humans will find an ancient DNA-based data archive in a colony of sea creatures in a deep sea trench. It contains a copy of Wikipedia from a civilization that evolved from squid many millions of years ago. They reached bio-tech stage and then disappeared completely. We prepare our own data archive...
Chickens are incredibly efficient meat production machines. The feed conversion ration on chickens is 1.6: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_conversion_ratio#Poultry – that's incredible to consider, 1.6 pounds of feed turns into 1 pound of chicken!
Chickens don't just produce meat, they are self-contained meat growing machines with components to support that growth, including the ability to extract and filter nutrients from food with limited processing, a built-in enclosure for the process with self-healing abilities, a control system to deliver nutrients periodically and maintain system temperature, control systems to create a balance of nutrients at the cellular level, resilient systems to deliver those nutrients, and on and on.
No lab will be as efficient in making chicken meat as a chicken is. And it's not because God got it right the first time around: chickens are human products, but a chicken is product that leverages all of the resilience, complexity, and power of a full organism.
(There are ethical questions about factory farming... but it should be noted that those are not environmental questions.)
I'd you see it purely economically, the question is just a matter of inputs vs outputs. If you can take grain and circumvent the inefficiencies of a chicken (gets sick, grows feathers, grows bones, produces excrement, ...) and instead get the same nutrients more directly to produce meat of course it's more efficient. The question is just how much else is needed - energy, space, cost of producing the initial materials, harvesting time, ...
Not to mention moral implications that a vegetarian might care about or practical elements (can you grow it with flavour?; do you need less space?; ...).
That said, obviously its not going to touch the ubiquity of chickens anytime soon - eapecially in poorer countries - as the tech is high cost while you can start your own chicken coop with two eggs or chicka. But heated greenhouses are also not replacing tomato fields and yet they have a huge role in some regions of the world.
Just add some garlic and rosemary genes and voila, herb flavored chicken that needs no marinating!
Aren’t some of the ethical questions connected to environmental ones? Instead of chicken feed could one produce something better?
industrial chicken farming also produces waste and consumes water. Together with noise and smell there are surely environmental impacts.
Also an investment in labgrown meats could bring the cost down and is potentially a good driver for innovation. Not only growing meat for consumption, but maybe skin or other more complex cell structures for transplants or other medical purposes.
That led me to look for comparisons between FCR for poultry and cultured meat, and so far this report[1] seems informative.
Selected quotes from the report, as relevant to the topic of (land-use) efficiency:
"These results suggest that alternatives to the current mix of livestock production systems could substitute current animal products and substantially reduce the current agricultural land use footprint from food production."
"Although, the two most efficient products considered, i.e. imitation meat and insects, both come with consumer perception barriers, a shift towards poultry meat, eggs and milk was also found to offer land use and associated environmental benefits, of only slightly smaller magnitudes."
[1] - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221191241...
I find that hard to believe. Corn is 86kcal/100g while chicken breast is 165kcal/100g (according to a quick Google search). So you're saying that a chicken is a machine that converts 137kcal from corn to 165kcal of meat, while ... living?
I think that water is already accounted for in calorie calculations. 100g of corn is 19g of carbs (76kcal), 3g of protein (12kcal) and 1g of fat (9kcal - honestly I thought it was more fat). 100g of chicken breast is 3g of fat (30kcal) and 31g protein (124kcal) - and that's not even the most calorie-dense part of chicken (not a lot of fat)! I realize there's some discrepancy here (I guess nutrition isn't an exact science, there's variation in living beings, and different counting techniques (count fiber or not)), but the numbers roughly match.
https://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.html?number=C9...
Yes, I can. Try to have a chicken raised only with corn, and don't give it water. See how long it will last.
Since the lab grown chicken doesn't need bones or organs, there is already an efficiency gain there. You also don't don't need to maintain a chicken for months since this burger only takes a few days to grow.
Real chickens are currently more efficient, but that won't last forever as lab technology improves. Ideally, you just need a vertical farm that takes in electricity, organic feedstock, and some minerals and you should be able to get a better energy to meat conversion than an inefficient chicken that was cobbled together by blind luck.
That sounds about right. Even chicken nuggets and chicken patties "made from chicken" are an entirely recreated textured product made from chicken slurry from a blender, soy protein, binding agents, water, and seasonings.
I'm not even remotely surprised they're able to create a lab-grown "chicken patty". I'm honestly not even sure what the difference would be between this and a 100% soy protein version, in terms of taste and texture?
This "chicken burger" is, of course, nothing like an actual chicken breast or thigh. There's a reason it has to be breaded and fried, to mask the total lack of any real meat texture whatsoever.
In Germany Burger King sells plant based nuggets. Barely a difference, we recently ordered both Chicken and Plant based nuggets, maybe the chicken one still had a bit more structure. But to be honest, one drowns them in sauce anyway. Probably will go for plant based ones in the future.
I wonder whether there's some genetic variation that causes some of us to be revolted by it, like some people who can't stand the taste of cilantro or Brussels sprouts.
There may also be some differences in complexity between the process involved for cultured beef versus cultured poultry, but even if the difference is 10x, this is the kind of reduction in costs that tends to point toward a technology actually becoming feasible in the mainstream.
It's quite possible that the global meat industry will look very different another seven years from now.
Like the people who work there. If you had compunction, you would lose it quick, or else you wouldn’t last long
Many people have shown an extraordinary lack of compunction in doing things far worse than factory farming (from the viewpoint of human-centric ethics at least), e.g Auschwitz, Srebrenica, Sinjar
See e.g. this review:
https://yaleglobalhealthreview.com/2016/01/25/a-call-to-acti...
- https://m.dw.com/en/europes-meat-industry-is-a-coronavirus-h...
- https://m.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-54033...
- https://m.dw.com/en/germanys-exploited-foreign-workers-amid-...
In the US the Food Megacorps had to weigh to shut down due to COVID related incidents in order to keep their supply chains from falling apart, and make sure meat was present when everyone was panic buying or restructure; in the end they just accepted that local poor and (mainly) immigrant labour deaths are an inherent extranality and an unavoidable part of the total calculus of getting the economics of factory farming to work [0]. Some even created a betting pool on how many would contract COVID in the processing plants, it's really fucking sick but an apt reflection of the Global Food Industry as whole. [1]
Fortunately, CSA memberships and community gardens sold out in record numbers this year, which is the only thing to take solace from and I hope it persists from now on.
I've personally reduced my protein consumption significantly to last year, and really mainly ate eggs and salmon that I had frozen from last years harvest. I ate chicken once or twice every week and usually made soup from kombu/katsubushi when I used up the bones.
0: https://modernfarmer.com/2020/06/families-of-covid-19-meatpa...
1: https://www.salon.com/2020/11/21/tyson-foods-managers-bet-on...
Edit: it says in the article: “ 96% lower greenhouse gas emissions “
Wouldn't it have been better to just taste the meat patty without such strong flavors to mask any weirdness? If I was eating the first lab-grown chicken burger, I think I'd want to try it as plain as possible first (i.e. bun and maybe not much else).
Either way I'm happy about the progress. Maybe lab grown meat will stand a better chance of eliminating factory farming than plant based meats.
I mean, cleanly grown in a nice lab: yuck! Damn it, I want mine from a chicken that wallowed in shit all its life in some tiny box together with thousands of others.
I don’t think eating animals is unethical but I am not a fan of how industrial agriculture works. Especially how animals are treated.
This approach could solve all the problems. It is better for the animals and we don’t have to listen to the most crazy animals rights activists anymore.
That's what nobody mentions about this. Until FBS is replaced in the culture medium, this method will be much worse than farming chickens.
Seems like there's another SF based company in this space too - Just Eat[1]
[1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/12/02/eat-jus... -
I struggle to imagine a more disgusting way to obtain meat than getting it off a dead animal.
Would much rather eat that than the alternative
I wonder how similar these fibers are to actual chicken/beef. My understanding is that these vat-grown meats are essentially just compressed globs of cells, with no real structure
it is the energy needed to consume it that people enjoy the distinction of, compared to substitutes which also compromise somewhat (less than in prior years) on taste and texture
lab grown meat accomplishes that alongside the taste of fat
Until we get to a point where literally the only difference between a lab grown filet mignon and a grass fed one is cost, people will be raising animals for mass slaughter.
Meat substitutes are a nice alternative to have but they're nowhere near the real thing. And you can only have lentils so many days in a row.
This technology, once improved and using a better growth medium, literally has no downside. I can understand people might not want it for themselves but I'm sure there's a sizable market in meat that doesn't come from the hell that is modern factory farming (or the abbatoirs all animals end up in irrespective of the farm).
I have seen ground chicken, griddled or grilled, called a chicken burger.
I'm firmly against this nomenclature, but I suppose these places are set in their old ways for some reason :)
Before moving to the US I always thought it was the style of bun that made it a 'burger', whereas if you put it between two pieces of sliced bread it would be a 'sandwich'.
Chickens come from eggs, which come from other chickens.
Chickens do not come from a laboratory.
Although, that is exactly what Perdue would do
There's a reason people use existing "technically incorrect" product names to refer to replacement products like this. It's so people who are used to consuming the original products see the replacement as a replacement, on level footing with the original.
Almost no one is going to replace dairy milk with soy bean-flavoured water, and chicken patties with chicken-flavoured burgers. The latter sound like dodgy knock-offs and people don't want to put that kind of thing in their bodies.
Also, "chicken-flavored burger" isn't really accurate to what this is. It may be lab-grown, but it's still meat. A "chicken-flavored burger" sounds like a vegetarian patty with chicken-like seasoning and flavours.