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Comment by inglor_cz | Hacker News Reader

"the notion that steppe people are inherently austere"

They are not inherently austere, but the very fact that they tend to move around limits how much they can own and carry with them. Plus, by living far inland, it is harder to reach them using ships, which were by far the most efficient transport means until the advent of railways.

Until railways, wealth made by long distance trade tended to concentrate in major seaports or in cities on important rivers that could be easily supplied by water (Vienna, Paris, Prague).

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You ... did not read the article, did you?

Cause the thesis is exactly the opposite. The limited space just reinforces the need for single clothing to be good against both cold and warm weather. It does not remove the political need to flaunt wealth by elite either.

Edit: thesis is supported by photos and descriptions of real world stepped people.

We don’t know much about the climate Dothraki lived in, much less the weather patterns they had to endure. I assume the Dothraki did though and they choose appropriate garb.

The article goes into some detail here, it is worth reading.

> plains and steppes – that is large expanses of semi-arid grasslands. The very nature of that terrain configuration produces fairly extreme seasonal temperature variations (that is, very hot summers and very cold winters) as well as extreme daily temperature variations (that is, hot days and cold nights) because such places are far from the large bodies of water and also don’t have tree-cover, both of which serve to moderate rapid temperature changes. [...] There’s no reason to suppose the Dothraki Sea would be any different: it sits at about the same latitude as King’s Landing so there is little reason to assume it would be warm all-year-round.

There are more reasons then just weather patterns estimated based on location and terrain for cloth to be less practical tho.

The same blog applies the same pedantry to clothing of other groups and to military aspects of different groups too. It is not like Dothraki were singled out in a blog that otherwise ignores clothing and practicality.

I read it. My point stands - assuming the land the Dothraki roamed is anything like somewhere on Earth is a leap. To suggest there are latitudes or that they are even on a spherical planet is a leap. They have what appears to be great seafaring cultures yet they always have to take what would appear to be the long way if they were in a spherical planet. Would their dragons fly in our physics? They cast steel in fires that couldn’t possibly be hot enough in our physics. There are innumerable examples to suggest their realm is quite unlike ours.

There’s simply no reason to assume Dothraki climate resembles ours.

Have you read the book or seen the show? GoT is not crazy anything goes fantasy. Weather in GoT follows clear patterns that also happen to be super important for plot.

It is also big on maps and accurate timing of how long it takes to get from place to place. There was even massive complaining when last seasons written by different people failed in that aspect.

There are inaccurate things beyond Dothraki, as described on both this blog and half the internet. But arguing about GoT as if it was Alice in Wonderland crazy fantasy is absurd.

Have read all the books to date and seen the show. There are dragons in it. There is magic in it. There are mystical people and what appears to be spirits and ghosts and witches.

People get badly wounded and yet no one dies of a bacterial infection. There are buildings constructed in ways that our physics wouldn’t support with the assumed materials and tolerances of the assumed period.

There are undead - in fact they are introduced in the prologue of the first book. There is a massive ice wall made by humans in an area that is, as described in the books in permanent winter but yet inhabited by people. And giants. And a few days ride to places that have warm summers. And oh yeah, the seasons last years instead of months and are irregular and unpredictable in length.

But yes, the lands the fictional Dothraki people roamed in should be similar to our grasslands in terms of climate and appropriate garb.

> yet no one dies of a bacterial infection

I have read most of the books (a long time ago now) and I believe this happens at least twice. As well as that, there's a lot of talk about cleaning wounds too, even in field situations (typically with boiled wine - apparently similar to Hippocrates).

"They cast steel in fires that couldn’t possibly be hot enough in our physics."

That's not because of fantasy elements; it's because the author didn't do his research, and instead just went with what he'd seen in countless movies.

The reason to assume that Dothraki climate resembles that of Earth steppe peoples is, as quoted in the essay, because Martin claimed to have based the Dothraki on them. Those Steppe peoples have adapted their clothing and cultures to the climate they live within. If the Dothraki are supposed to resemble these people culturally then their clothing should reflect the climate of Earth's steppe peoples.

We know it very well: steppes [0] require specific climate conditions to form.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperate_grasslands,_savannas...

On earth of course. But in the fantasy world of GoT, how can we know? The books describe many natural things that are different. For instance, seasons last years instead of months.

> the very fact that they tend to move around limits how much they can own and carry with them

This is why they used horses/animals to carry their stuff (at least on the Eurasian steppe). If you can carry huge tents with floors risen from the ground etc you can carry some clothes if you want. Just check some pictures of the various tents and how they are constructed. Yes they are portable but by no means small or lightweight.

And as pointed out in the article they wanted really nice clothing as you have to layer and add/remove the layers during the seasons (and even night vs day)

> living far inland, it is harder to reach them using ships

And yet the precursor to the Silk Road (Steppe route) went straight through the Eurasian steppe. Around 10000km of it. That most likely gave them a better access to trade than the average European inland city had.

And even once the Silk Road replaced the Steppe route for the most part the actual horses used to transport stuff on the Silk Road came from the Eurasian Steppe. And the horse nomads on the steppe had horses to trade and the traders on the Silk Road had stuff they wanted in exchange.

Also the steppe nomads did not go around conquering huge amounts of area (see the Mongols and Huns for examples) just because they liked to kill and murder. They did it for mainly the same reason most other large empires did. They wanted the nice stuff (good food, nice clothing, gold/silver, art, etc)

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