Hacker News Reader

Comment by PeterStuer | Hacker News Reader

Are mailing lists in Google gender segregated?

It's pretty common in large corporations to have 'affinity groups', which discuss topics that affect the group.

I don't work at Google; I work at Amazon. I can only speak about my experience, but it's likely the same at Google.

You don't have to be a part of an affinity group to be a member of the mailing list (that's where the ..and Allies portion comes into play).

The 'Google Brain Women and Allies' mailing list is probably full of women from the Google Brain team, non-binary and men from in from the Google Brain team, and others who aren't on the Google Brain team but are interested in its work.

Again, I don't know. But this is educated conjecture based on my experience at another FAANG.

Must be a US specific thing as I do not see this in EU corporations. I assume there is also a 'Google Brain Men and Allies'? Why not just a 'Google Brain and Allies'? Or does that also exist?

I would assume that there isn't a 'Google Brain Men and Allies' affinity group. "Google Brain" does likely have its own general distro where standard work-related topics are discussed.

At the hazard of becoming 'political' and triggering people, affinity groups are typically created for groups that have traditionally been underserved, marginalized, or have special considerations.

As a cis male, I don't really see the need for a 'Google Brain Men and Allies' distro list because the issues that men face in the workplace are generally the same issues everyone faces. Women (and nonbinary people) can be confronted with issues that men simply aren't.

---

At Amazon, there are groups for Black employees, Latinx employees, LGBTQA+ employees, transgender employees, women, disabled employees, etc.

Sometimes these groups talk about work; but sometimes they talk about just life things. For example, often cisgendered employees will have children that come out as trans. So they'll reach out to the transgender community for help and support as to how to be the best advocate for their child.

Or, as a personal example, I moved to a new city to take the job at Amazon. I was looking for a therapist, and it was important that the therapist be supportive of LGBTQA+ issues and ethical non-monogamy. So I reached out to the LGBTQA+ group for therapist recommendations.

I understand these seem to be sensitive and 'political' issues in the US. I just do not understand how any of this labeling and segregation can be productive in a workplace.

You don’t understand how trans people might have specific things in common to talk about that non-trans people don’t relate to? These groups aren’t just for political hot topics, but also for parents or for musicians or runners or any other affinity group.

I can surely understand how that can be the case. I just don't see why that would be specifically relevant to generally working on Google Brain.

I can't speak for Google Brain specifically, or AI/ML (I do InfoSec). Perhaps there is a need for discussing the Google Brain project specifically from a woman's point of view.

But when I hear about a 'Google Brain Women and Allies' distro, I'm more thinking about peers which discuss things which impact them. I wouldn't get too hung up about the 'Google Brain' portion of the distro; it's likely just a way to self-select a group of peers which share a common interest.

Ahh I got it now. This is great answer and would make a lot of sense. The tech industry is very male-driven and plagued with a lot of issues, so I’d only imagine these groups as essential part of many employees survival / wellbeing. Also I’d argue that these are people issues and not US political issues.

> Also I’d argue that these are people issues and not US political issues.

Gender equality activism has been part of US politics since at least 1776: http://www.thelizlibrary.org/suffrage/abigail.htm (Abigail Adams advocating to the constitutional convention)

> Latinx employees

Is there an affinity group for the overwhelming majority of "Latinx" people who don't use or like this term?

https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in...

The list is presumably a place to discuss issues that are specific to women’s experience working on Google Brain. “And allies” indicates it’s not exclusive, and other folks are welcome to contribute to the discussion. The reason there’s no “Google Brain Men and Allies” is because “men’s experience” is the default around which every other mailing list likely focuses.

Why would workplace mailing list focus by default on "men's experience" or "men's issues"? Wouldn't they just focus on work stuff, irrespective of the gender of the persons working there?

In the US, men aren't considered marginalized, and therefore having Male, White, or Straight affinity groups is frowned upon. They are often seen as opposition to Gender/Racial justice movements. People who bring up these issues are often labeled fragile or racist.

In my opinion, this leads to division and contempt/hatred for the other group. I live in a super progressive US state, and the university near me got a lot of backlash for hosting White affinity groups.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com