Comment by tropdrop | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tropdrop | Hacker News Reader

> “Many of those who reach us say they have no place to go when they’re told to stay home,” said Jun Tachibana of the Bond Project. “Many are having problems with their family, friends or boyfriends. I worry they may be feeling more lonely.”

Unfortunately, this article's diagnosing of the problem as loneliness misses the mark entirely. I don't think loneliness alone should account for this 80% increase in female suicides – there is an insidious assumption here, that women are somehow less able to "deal" with being alone, to such a severe extent that they are driven to suicide. Additionally, in the same sentence, Jun Tachibana mentioned that the women are "having problems with their family, friends, or boyfriends" – not that they don't have these interactions, but that these interactions are the source of problems.

What the article was woefully remiss in addressing at all is the increased rates of domestic abuse and child abuse that has happened in Japan in the last few years [1]. Domestic abuse in Japan has increased year to year for 16 consecutive years. (I am not sure why, but I do know it's a taboo topic in Japan. See Kore-ada's film Shoplifters about the government response to this situation, and its myopic insistence that the nuclear family solves all). Additionally (in the US, for instance), we have seen domestic abuse rates soar during the pandemic [2]. As per the source: "Disturbingly, the data suggested that the pandemic has produced many new offenders: reports coming from city blocks with no previous record of domestic violence were the main drivers of the increase."

These two factors together with Japan's complicated history with suicide and shame actually provide a much clearer (and sad) picture of the possible cause of an increase in suicide for women.

[1] – https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/03/e788d95b8fc7-dome... [2] – https://phys.org/news/2020-08-domestic-violence-pandemic.htm...

Is that really an insidious assumption to you, or are you trying too hard to be gender-blind?

I've been around for a while now, and it's an indisputable fact in my mind that men cope far better with loneliness than women. From seeing friends and strangers in my personal life, to less tangible understandings of evolutionary pressures and general rates of extroversion/introversion between women and men, it's frankly odd to me that such an uncontroversial statement could give anyone pause.

It is an insidious assumption to me, personally. I have been living on my own since midway through the pandemic, and have been enjoying it. My productivity has gone through the roof, and I feel grateful to be alive – I've enjoyed the ability to spend time rediscovering who I am when not constrained by constant micro-pressures of social gatherings. The best is the endless ability to cancel social engagements without feeling any repercussions – there's always the excuse of the pandemic.

My mother has also consciously decided to live completely on her own throughout this time, and I've seen her make some tremendous personal growth during this time (more than in the past 20 years, which were filled with a handful of male partners).

Being familiar with Japan's recent problematic (lack of) discourse around the issue of domestic abuse, this statement (especially on the heels of the women telling the source that they have problems with family and boyfriends) seemed facile.

I'm startled by your use of "indisputable fact" there – anything branded as "indisputable fact" is a lofty claim, especially when it comes to lived experience or subjective states of others. We're just willing to no longer investigate the cause of this sudden jump in suicides, because we can simply write it off as "normal" loneliness? I don't like it when others presume to tell me what is "normal" for my (or any) gender, especially when a mysterious jump in mortality is involved.

>We're just willing to no longer investigate the cause of this sudden jump in suicides, because we can simply write it off as "normal" loneliness?

That's quite a leap there. I understand there are many societal problems plaguing Japan, and other comments have eluded to Japan's very low birthrates which are also indicative of these factors. It's not an insidious assumption that this year's isolation may have contributed to that phenomenon, especially for women, who generally require more socialisation than men.

There may not be much common ground here though. I don't personally know anybody who uses terms like "micro-pressures" or "problematic", all of the women of my mother's age (including my parents) have been happily married for decades (and my mum's main source of joy through this time has been getting out to see her many children and grandchildren as often as permitted), and I think most people in my family would be at least a little troubled if a young relative was proud of her increases in "productivity" in isolation.

We're from different worlds!

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