What's so special about Apple products? | Hacker News Reader

What's so special about Apple products?

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14 pointsandreadallera42 comments

The lack of a delete key never bothered me in Mac OS X since every single text field gives you bloody Emacs shortcuts.

If anything, it's more convenient to be able to do Ctrl-A, Ctrl-f, Ctrl-f, Ctrl-d, Ctrl-d than reach all the way over to Home, hit right arrow twice, then hit Del twice, especially when you use caps lock as Ctrl.

You can kind of do the same in Linux (GTK+ has emacs keybindings you can enable inside text fields as well), but it'll always work better in Mac OS X because they have the Command key and forced everyone to make good, consistent use of it, so using Ctrl for emacs shortcuts usually doesn't clobber anything.

Honestly, globally available emacs keys and the ability to run Photoshop/Premiere Pro/Cubase/etc. without giving up my UNIX-like commandline are the two major reasons I like using a Mac. Quirks with Finder don't bother me since I only use it to browse files -- almost everything else, like moving or copying files, I usually do using the commandline anyway. Things are also more consistent and more stable with a Mac, since they tailor the hardware and software to specifically match each other and Apple is very big on getting developers to follow their UI conventions. I also enjoy using multi-touch gestures on the generously sized touchpads they have on the newer Macbooks and Macbook Pros.

But other than that, there isn't anything Mac OS X has to offer that Linux doesn't provide, assuming you're using it on well-supported hardware (which can be hit or miss when shopping sometimes).

Everything really is slower on a Mac too. All the file operations are hooked into Spotlight so it can keep track of all your files for a search feature people like me never use, and I don't think HFS+ performs that well to begin with. Not to mention the hardware is a weak compared to equivalently priced PCs.

Even so, I still find that everything's more than fast and responsive enough for me, and you'll always be able to find someone who'll pay a good price for your 1-year old Macbook Pro, making upgrading to the latest model that much cheaper.

Summary: a Linux/Windows use finds quirks when using a different environment (Mac OS X).

I don't think they're just quirks but let's say it's the way you paint it. Given those quirks, why would you choose to use a platform so quirky for 3 times the price? That's what I don't understand.

I've switched from Windows to Linux a while ago. At the beginning it was "quirky" but I could immediately see how much better linux was. On mac, I just feel that the system is working against me.

My point is that "quirks" like these are in the eye (or fingertips) of the beholder. Surely, someone using a system for years will find a new system awkward to use.

To play devil's advocate, I would choose a platform 3x the cost because (a) I'm used to features that Windows users call quirks, and (b) I receive > 3x the value from that system.

In my own case, I find that I like Windows 7 a little more than Mac OS X these days.

3 times the price? Seriously?

There's links to both a laptop PC and a MacBook with similar specs in the article, the laptop PC is 749€, the macbook 2149€.

EDIT : to reply to the comment below... I don't know about weight but battery time on my crappy current laptop (2 years old) is around 4 hours and a half, I think because I run linux (on windows it was around 2 hours). One of my colleagues recently changed the battery on his MacBook pro because it couldn't keep charge anymore, after one year.

About resolution, the MacBook pro I've selected goes at 1440x900, which is the same resolution my crappy laptop has.

Several problems here. First, you picked the wrong Mac for comparison. You should have compared to the next one down in the MacBook Pro line. That better matches the Acer, except the Acer has a bigger disk. You can configure the Mac to match.

That drops the Mac to 1849. At that point, the Mac has the following hardware advantages over the Acer:

1. 2.0 GHz i7 vs. 1.73 GHz i7 processor.

2. 2.54 kg weight vs. 3.3 kg

3. 1440x900 display vs. 1366x768. (For another 100 euros, you can make the Apple 1680x1050).

4. Dual graphics with automatic switching. The Acer does have faster graphics and more graphics RAM. It should get about twice the frame rate on high settings in many games. The Mac will use a lot less power on graphics, though, especially when you are doing stuff that doesn't make heavy GPU use--like most of the time when programming.

5. The Mac will get significantly better battery life.

6. The Mac likely has a much better trackpad and keyboard, and overall better build quality. In my experience, most programmers care about these things, for the same reason other craftsmen care about tool quality. I don't like to type all day on a poor keyboard, or do my mouse manipulation with a poor trackpad.

EDIT: also, git is not slow on Mac. Terminals do not take 30 seconds to open. I suspect you are getting flagged and the submission was deleted because it contains so many things that are contrary to fact.

They do not have similar specs. They might have some of the same components but resolution, battery lifetime and weight are all better on the MacBook Pro. If you just look at the processor, ram and hard drive then every non apple computer will be cheaper.

Apple doesn't make it very easy for the average Joe to compare Apple versus other manufacturers battery life, choosing the non-standard Watt-hour instead of mAh.

I doubt the 17" will ever be cheaper, but the 13"/15" can be a pretty good deal imho. Especially since the resale value is usually much higher than the PC.

as if build quality, aesthetics, user experience, happiness, etc are worthless

Build quality, aesthetics -> as long as it boots and doesn't fall into pieces, I couldn't care less. I'm a programmer.

User experience -> that's exactly what I'm complaining about. My user experience is severely impaired.

happiness -> ...

Ctrl+d is the emacs bindning for delete, itworks just about everywhere on OSX. I do agree with the general slowness (beachballs galore).

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http://images.apple.com/macbookpro/images/design_trackpad201...

There is... problem is, there is also another key called "command", or "apple", which most of the times does what the ctrl key does on a pc. But not always, so you have to keep switching.

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Ctrl-d (not Cmd-d) in every textbox in OSX does exactly what Ctrl-d does in emacs. There is no difference.

Yep, also fun + backspace would do but I'd really really like to have my DEL key back. I'm used to it, I love it, it's everywhere, I don't see the point of taking that back.

Learn to use Google and you can solve all those problems.

These same type of articles have hashed out over and over.

http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs...

Hm, doesn't look like that.

Learn to use the keyboard shortcuts for moving around a line. It's a bit weird at first since they are chorded, but the advantage is that you don't have to leave the main keys so it's a little faster in general and you get better line navigation (at least I have not found similar navigation in Linux).

Also use iTerm2. I don't count the fact that I have to replace the default terminal as a minus since I have to do this for Linux too.

As for why I love my MBP. Sleep mode that works, spotlight, time machine, generally good GUI, unix is still there, really good build quality (I don't worry about it copping a bit of abuse since it's not plastic and does not warp when I pick t up with one hand), mag safe, multi touch trackpad and sometimes I come across an app from an indie that is quite frankly delightful. Eg Capo, Disco (when I still used CDRs), Delicious Library. You just don't see great apps on Linux.

http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs...

I should have used the /sarcasm tag maybe....

ctrl-d

Emacs keybindings work just about everywhere on a Mac.

Even among experienced computer users, emacs is a bit esoteric.

How intuitive are Emacs bindings for the typical Mac Owner?

By the same token, how many of the OP's complaints are really a problem for the typical Mac owner?

I could just go for fn + backspace if I didn't care about pressing two keys for that.

While OS X is generally not very customizable, keybindings are generally good and/or changable.

Try modifying DefaultKeyBinding.dict or if that is not enough, KeyRemap4Macbook.

Sure I could do that... I mean, I can remap everything on linux too. But I don't need to do that because the keys do what I expect them to. That's my point.

Hm, cmd + x does cut. Just not on files in Finder, the reason I suspect is the lack of a "forcing function" in such a case. It would for example be possible to lose files by mistakingly hit cmd + x. For other operations like this, (quitting without saving, emptying the trash etc) you get a question asking you to confirm.

Yes, it does normally cut, but not in finder. I don't see how could you lose files by cutting - on dolphin (KDE) if i cut a file and then don't paste it the only thing that happens is that dolphin notifies me of that (rendering the icon grayish) and, if i close it and open it up again, the file is still there, still grayish.

Frankly, I have never seen a file explorer that does cut, anywhere. MS Windows, for instance, does not delete a file on 'cut', and does not copy it on 'copy' (if it did, "copy, shift-delete, paste" would be a no-op)

Cut/Copy/Paste/Undo is a huge UI problem in file explorers. Apple historically chose to not implement any of them (but it did have 'Put Back' to move any file or folder back to where it last was). Following pressure from Windows users, Mac OS X added copy and paste, but not cut. I certainly can understand their reasoning, and also am happy with it. It is not as if I spend hours each day moving files and directories around; if I did, I would do so using the command prompt.

Yes, but then that is a form of notification, although you could say that it's ambiguous to someone who doesn't use that feature and hit cmd+x by mistake. Or, let's say it's less clear than a alert dialog asking you to confirm. Having said that, an alert would be annoying.

There is NO del key

Addressed in other comments

Apple key instead of CTRL

I for one like it this way because it creates a clear delineation between OS/program key bindings and remote key bindings - for example, Win cntl-key combos that stop working when SSHing with Putty because control-key combos are being reserved fot the SSH sessions, etc. YMMV. (and BTW, the Command key came long before the Windows key)

You can’t cut a file on Finder

You can copy and paste files with the Finder. Given how many people I've seen lose or corrupt files using Window's cut, I think this is a good thing.

if you want to delete a file you have to use the option in the context menu to do that.

Command-delete

needed a good 30 seconds for the terminal to start

That is one seriously fubar'd Mac. On my ~4 years old Mac mini it takes all of 2 seconds.

Where has my submission gone? Why it's not on the frontpage anymore? Is it what I think happened really happened?

Either it's not getting the volume of upvotes to keep it on the front page (fairly likely), or people are flagging it which is combining with the low volume of upvotes to push it away from the front page. Either way, it's a pity, as it means that the conversation here will probably die down, but it's not especially surprising.

This has 13 points at the moment. The submission which is currently 6th place on the homepage has 12 points and is, like this one, about 1 hour old (i've submitted this after that one was already on the home).

I smell censorship...

Eh. Decentralized censorship, maybe. Even a few flags are counted fairly heavily for moving submissions down, I believe. Don't blame the community as a whole, or the people running the site: blame the few people who don't understand what flagging is for.

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That was a really insightful contribution of yours. Keep rolling.

Want insightful? Google. Because that is where your questions belong. You're making a point/asking a question (why Mac for webdev?) from a completely skewed perspective.

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