The Donut King who went from rags to riches, twice
bbc.com
bbc.com
1. With zero experience, zero education, and training he was paid to go through, he was handed a franchise and allowed to keep a large portion of the profits
2. In less than a year he was able to use his profits to buy a second location that was presumably all his to profit from
3. Within two years of starting he made $40k in SAVINGS (not just profit) from these two locations, in the 70s
I wish we had it this easy today. No wonder this generation is constantly telling us about bootstraps
Where, today, can one be given a franchise after (paid) training and save close to $200k (net of profits, taxes, etc.) over a one year period? Even given the same work habits and use of family (child) labor? There is either an element of (relative) less difficulty and or extraordinary luck at play here.
Winchell was (and is) a business, not a charity.
The article lacks details but Ockham's Razor dictates that the most plausible was that Winchell and he entered into a business arrangement where he was running their donut shop for a share of profits. They provided the capital, he did all the work and Winchell got a cut of his profits.
He then saved aggressively and started buying more donut shops.
Notice that Winchell had similar arrangement with many other people and presumably they didn't become millionaires.
As to luck: he trained 100+ other immigrants to successfully operate a donut shop so if an immigrant that most likely doesn't even speak English can profitably operate a donut shop, maybe luck is not such a big factor.
As for why he became a millionaire and not others - I don't see any luck there either. He followed the same formula a hundred times: open one more donut shop. He was just more ambitious, worked harder, saved more aggressively and took a bit more risk.
Its the same formula used by particular Indian community who came to the US in 70s, 80's and now own most of the motels in US. Put your family to work, save lots of money, use those savings to buy another motel, bring immigrants from your community, put them to work, rinse and repeat and that is how a small Indian community are the Motel Kings in the US.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/2018/09/south-asi...
https://www.encyclopedia.com/books/politics-and-business-mag...
Also, I would not call the hours the whole family worked at the shop, or the extreme cost savings they employed, easy. Let alone the difficulty of saving up his first $3,000 by working three jobs.
[edit: added reference] https://www.encyclopedia.com/books/politics-and-business-mag...
He sounds quite extraordinary to me.
Now that I'm in my thirties and we've gone through various social movements, I think "whoa, what a creeper." Specifically the whole jumping into her bedroom. And the whole stabbing himself if they broke them apart. Then I had gave a gut check: they were kids. In my teens my mind was definitely in that realm of ambitious gestures.
Even as teenagers those are massive red flags.
But let's be real: You can't save money you didn't make to start with. The above poster is clearly calling out the gift as the reason for his success.
There’s plenty of people in the USA presented with much more opportunity than this man received. Few have achieved anywhere near as much.
I’d wager that if he got his first job as a janitor he’d be running a cleaning empire rather than a donut chain.
I wish we keep survivor bias in mind when reading success stories; we should ask "out of those who work hard and gritty, how many are successful and how many are actually not?" And not "out of those who are successful, how many are hardworking?"
Most of the time, hardwork is just the minimum prerequisite to success that every aspirants have, de-emphasizing the role of luck in life is simply unwise.
If you're talking about cases of extraordinary success like this person, then hard work can vastly increase the amount of opportunity you're exposed to. Nobody says luck isn't involved, but you can improve your odds of getting lucky.
The "luck theory" is the one that is damaging. Because the biggest real problem is people don't know about opportunities. This is one big advantage certain immigrant groups have over even locals. They have networks of people from their country telling them where to go, what skills to get, what jobs to get, how to deal with every detail of every hurdle. It's practically a mentoring system for how to succeed in the US.
In Lansing Biggby's Coffee got started. Right now they're in a dozen states. I've met the two founders, one of their first employees who was a recent immigrant now owns over 100 stores.
Many of them would love to be gifted a franchise that brings into their wallet, inflation-adjusted, ~200,000K in profit a year.
The article is loosely worded but what happened was that first he invested 3 months of his time (while holding other jobs to support himself) into Winchell's training program.
Winchell is a franchise of donut shops. I don't know what the deal was back then, but today "Winchell's has a franchise fee of up to $0, with a total initial investment range of $3,400 to $44,700"
https://www.franchisegrade.com/franchises/winchell-s
His first donut shop was a Winchell franchise. A franchise is not a gift. He had to work hard, make the business profitable and pay back portion of the profits back to Winchell.
He became rich by extremely hard work, saving all his profits and re-investing them into opening more donut shops.
I.e. he worked very hard, continually leveraged his assets to expand, and was (for a time) successful.
This ... won't have hurt!
This is the equivalent of saying that the entire generation known as 'Gen Z' has it easy... because you read a blog post about one kid who makes millions off a YouTube channel.
The USA is an absolute paradise for an immigrant. The business environment is unbelievably friendly and helpful, capital is easily available. The country is filled with entrepreneurs who are incredibly supportive. There is a stable economy and system of laws. And the country is safe. These things don’t exist in most other countries.
I expect nothing but contempt for my comments above from this community, particularly given how popular it is to drown oneself in self pity. But trust me that when you step off the boat in this country it is exhilarating and inspiring and the world seems filled with possibilities that never existed before.
Unless you’ve lived in a corrupt country, seen hyperinflation of 1% per day first hand, experienced the increase in mental bandwidth that comes from feeling safe and the opposite, experienced tall poppy syndrome and the opposite, seen how hard it is to raise money elsewhere and raised money in the USA, you will never understand how absolutely amazing this country is.
I remember when I first moved here. I was incorporating my first California corporation using a Nolo book. I called the secretary of state’s office with a question. Someone answered the phone after one ring. I thought I’d called the wrong number. I couldn’t believe how helpful and friendly they were. Doing business on other countries is very hard. This country truly is amazing. If you live here and are an entrepreneur, you’re very fortunate.
And if you ever worked in Silicon Valley as a programmer, you must have noticed how people from India and China are over-represented in that profession.
Not to mention plenty of white males that are not rich and successful.
Being white male is neither sufficient nor necessary for success.
This is actually an interesting study in internal contradictions of the woke ideology. East Asians face a lot of racism when they move to Europe / America. Racial slurs, distrust from authorities, unwillingness to rent premises etc. No doubt about that, I was a kid in the early 90s and Vietnamese in Czechoslovakia were obvious targets, unfortunately. You could see it on a daily basis back then.
But that does not prevent them from growing very rich and successful. The so-called "systemic racism" somehow fails to prevent them from reaching elite status in large numbers.
Which business environment? The competitiveness is absolutely not universal across all markets in the US. There are plenty of markets that aren't competitive at all.
My point is that there are always highly competitive markets and markets with a lot of slack in them. Not to mention brand new markets that have never existed before.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/popu...
It’s also my opinion that the internet and use of computers and high speed communications have led to more market efficiency and less arbitrage opportunities. In decades past, an individual might have been more likely than now to notice and take advantage of an inefficiency, whereas now the bigger players have access to much more data about the market, satellite imagery, pricing and sales information, etc so that they are competing on all levels.
That's why we put the regulations in place. We can argue there are too many, but just smashing the current system is no way to restore anything. And it hasn't - we're back to worse than we were during the gilded age.
Poverty levels tells a different story.
2. The proper basis for comparison for the iterative generation of wealth and productivity isn't the past, it's the reasonable alternatives at the same time in development.
Imagine you and I start with 100 coins each.
In Scenario A, I take 30 of your coins. Then we fight each other and fritter away 10 coins each. Then our respective coin volume doubles. I end up with 240 coins. You end up with 120. We're both better off than in the past. In total, we have 360 coins.
In Scenario B, I steal all your coins. Without any coins, you can't fight me, so neither of us loses any further coins. Our coin volume doubles. I end up with 400 coins.
In Scenario C, I don't steal your coins and because we're not busy fighting each other, no losses occur. We both end up with 200 coins. In total we have 400 coins.
I think the lesson here is self evident, and that's without raising the fact that growth slows and societies collapse due to wealth disparities. If the simple thought experiment isn't enough and you'd like something a bit more involved, read up on the history and philosophy surrounding our transition away from the feudal system. Our distaste of titled hereditary privilege was very well deserved.
Freedom is better than control. It leaves everyone better. Control will kill us all.
I don't really believe that, but it is an analog to your "is self evident" claim. Except I think your belief is much stronger.
Only thing worse ae the pensioners, who complain that there's "too much choice" in the stores... how they used to have one chocolate (which didn't have enough cocoa to actually be a chocolate), and now theres 3/4 of an aisle of just chocolates... the chocolate they used to buy is still there, but it's shitty compared to other stuff, then they buy a milka and complain that Lindt is too expensive...
According to this article [0] Jeff Bezos net worth is $188.7 billion. His shares of Amazon represent $172.8 billion. While unlikely, if Amazon stock plummeted he would have "only" $15.9 billion. While still a lot on its own, the vast majority of his money is not even usable (immediately).
[0] https://marketrealist.com/p/how-many-shares-of-amazon-does-j...
The rules were changed, removing limits on sizes of banks and lenders, interest rates, how much the boss can skim, treatment of pension funds and on and on and on. All in the interest of, those with money get more money. To the point they have almost all the money.
It's irrelevant how much cash they have on hand. They own the economy, lock stock and barrel. The rest of us can only hope for a small stream to cover our expenses and little else.
This has been covered by literally thousands of articles. I suggest reading something, anything on the subject.
How do you explain all of the successful people that started from nothing, and got to where they are now?
So what solution do you propose? Do they not deserve the money they made? The majority of businesses fail, don't the ones that succeed deserve a reward?
It doesn't change anything.
Everyone is better off and there are some that are, because of the system that made it better for everyone one, much better off.
Just a symptom of a system that benefits all.
Could have stopped there. Looks to me like the big chains drove out the ma & pa businesses. Now the online giants are driving out them.
This is really the key point.
When immigrating to a country, you’re already taking a huge risk. You’re leaving behind extended family. You’re generally a little more well off than a typical person in your home country. You’re not really bound down by debt histories (who’s going to collect when you’re 5000 miles away and your bank accounts are out of reach?). Your debt future isn’t as much of a concern (who’s going to collect if you just pack up and go home without telling anyone?) Your past work experience and education experience isn’t as much of a concern because nobody is going to call up a former employer in a foreign country or look up transcripts or know anything about the reputation of foreign schools. You’re generally willing to take bigger risks because you’ve already taken a huge one by up and leaving your old lifestyle, and you also abandon a bunch of your burdens.
A bunch of people will say their home country doesn’t have great opportunities, but America does. 100% of the time, without exception, there’s an American living in that country making shitloads of money because being an immigrant there presents unique opportunities and they’re laughing at people saying America would be better.
Saying this as someone who immigrated to a country outside of America.
When I immigrated, I left behind tangible proof of my achievements, but I could've also completely bullshitted my history and instantly jumped into a higher level than was possible in my old country. It's also virtually risk-free should I fail. So long as I have enough money for a plane ticket home, I can just leave and there's zero long term consequence. This is incredibly common for westerners in Asia to do. It's also not uncommon for non-Americans to move to the US to instantly get a leg up in work with some companies really giving preferential treatment to things like H1Bs, then going back home with a larger savings and better opportunities to actually get started as an entrepreneur.
Americans who only have America don't have those massive privileges.
Being well off is positive, but if you're well off in a less-developed country, you'll actually be less well off in the US because of the higher cost of living here. So immigrating made that worse.
1 – Who paid for your education in your native country?
2 – With how much student debt did you arrive in the US?
3 – How did you get your starting capital including flights, rent money, etc?
4 – What are your rationale explaining any of the social issues in the pre-COVID America? (homelessness, foodbank, opioid, incarceration, etc...crises)
Really interested to hear your take.
As someone who found themselves in a similar situation as mmaunder, but who emigrated to Europe instead of the US, I thought I would take a stab at your questions:
1 - In theory, my education was free. In practice, I have to thank my parents for supporting me until I was in my 30s. Otherwise, I would have had to get a job - I still got part-time jobs, but I'm not sure I would have gotten my degree if I had had to work full time.
2 - See 1.
3 - I saved from my part-time jobs enough for the one-way flight plus 3 months, which I spent almost entirely in my first month (I didn't account for the 3 months rent deposit). My parents helped me until my PhD student paperwork was done, at which point I made enough to sustain myself.
4. I think you are reading mmaunder's comment as "the US is the best country in the world", which is not the case (that would be, I don't know, Sweden maybe?). What they are arguing, instead, is that being "okay" in the US is miles ahead of being "okay" in half the world. Could the US do better? Sure, for all the reasons that you mention (plus medical debt). But you may be so used to what people consider normal in the US (drinking water, money that doesn't lose its value week to week, not being shot by someone trying to steal your cell phone) that you don't see the good parts anymore.
See how the only point you did not address was (4).
Do you still think I missed mmaunder’s point?
Besides, the comment mmaunder replied to was comparing different periods, but your argument makes for a valid point that America is a great place for a privileged immigrant, but let’s not pretend that this is on offer to every American...or the vast majority of immigrants working minimal wage (when lucky, illegal aliens, forced labour, slave labour...) and providing the services you and mmaunder so proudly benefit from.
Have a quick look at cost of education and housing vs income growth.
> I think you are reading mmaunder's comment as "the US is the best country in the world"
Not at all. I read mmaunder’s comment as “I had the privilege of moving here with many benefits not afforded to the average American and I just can’t believe Americans..."
How do I know/guessed mmaunder’s privilege? Based on this:
> I remember when I first moved here. I was incorporating my first California corporation using a Nolo book.
mmaunder moved to the US to open their business, and that usually means, having enough capital that your worries are well disconnected from the reality of real America.
> “you’re very fortunate”
So it’s lucky to be an entrepreneur in the US particularly if you immigrate. I think GP was more interested in having opportunities like: managing a franchise after going on a course someone else funded, starving your family and working them for no money without retribution, throwing caution to the wind re customer hygiene to save a few cents on coffee stirrers, and being able to buy any business whatsoever with 1 year’s worth of donut-shop-manager money.
The only thing this guy did on his own was fritter away other people’s money to get “high”, and try to kill himself when things looked bad for him personally. He’s a pitiful man who has exploited those around him only to end up back in the dirt where he belonged.
Of course he went into politics.
Edit to add, look at the last line of the article itself.
> "I never back down. Never give up. Never surrender. Even in gambling. It took longer than 40 years. But I still win. At the end, I win."
No, getting called out for being a blood-sucking leech is not "tall poppy syndrome". Consider sitting down for two seconds and asking yourself why people dislike you.
The reality is that both you and the OP are correct. There are far fewer opportunities, leg ups, and bootstraps, than it seems there were in prior generations. Yet still, as you point out, the US ranks among the best.
If such a person knocks on your door, it would be foolish to not give him a franchise. He go the team slide in his pitch deck right, the franchise knew the market and the profit opportunity. An (angle) investor's dream made in heaven.
We have great shiny things like the internet; Video, Computer games, a lot more music, everyone can vote, smoking indoors is not normal etc.
We are living in a different world. Its not feasible to compare it to a time 50 years ago.
I prefer this time honestly.
Well except for housing, medical costs, and college. So all the important things.
However, in both cases we don’t hear about everyone else that didn’t win the lottery.
Yes, there is more competition now, but taken into account all the advantages of education, resources, information, and technology, this levels out the playing field somehow.
Every generation has its difficulties- we should not belittle other's challenges since we have never walked in their shoes. We can only learn empathy.
Having lived in South East Asia for many years, this tale of SE Asian security guards sounds about right...
EDIT: Hard work, friends in high places, a successful food business, gambling, a Chinese contact with a lot of money ... this really is a South East Asian story for the ages.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/2018/09/south-asi...
He’s an addict, and he had the gall to say “I didn’t have time for the business” when he was soaking himself in high-roller games in Vegas.
He starved and worked his family in essence minimising his contributions to the economy around him so that he could fund other child labour abusers.
Fuck this guy.
In terms of sponsoring refugees and setting them up with a profitable business, are you seriously calling that “funding other child labour abusers”? This is quite a privileged position. Do you think it more noble that they be left them to suffer under the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia?
Hopefully his faith will keep him honest now.
I think this is true of driven people (and narcissists) generally, and it doesn’t make them innately bad or worthy of scorn, just as you shouldn’t get upset at a child for lacking the emotional control of an adult. He’s not really so different from other driven iconoclasts, like a Musk or Jobs. Their personal lives often have a trail of strained relationships (divorces, estranged children). This story is particularly good IMHO because his drive ultimately ruins him, but he finds some small redemption in the end.
You’re right, I am absolutely refusing to be generous with him. He had all the generosity a person could ever need and he spat in the face of all those generous people. He also said his whole family forgives him now, and he always wins, never surrenders. I don’t know much about gambling recovery, but I’m certain addicts never “win”.
All I want anyone to consider is that there are thousands of case studies out there who didn’t have to demonstrate so much dishonesty. Sure he’s got the business chops to keep making good money, doesn’t mean he deserves veneration, immortalisation, and any faith that he’s a good person.
Civil forfeiture strikes again!
https://story.californiasunday.com/ted-ngoy-california-dough...
Business chains affiliated by origin like the Calif. donut chain are common in North America:
- Indian Gujaratis and Bay Area motels
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/2018/09/south-asi...
- S. Koreans and minimarts across Canada
(A relative of mine worked in one.)
- there's a couple immigrants with 10+ Calif. gas stations each
https://www.desertsun.com/story/money/business/2015/12/02/ch...
How it works in general is that the business visionary has a close relationship with one bank, and the ability to sponsor a lot of friends and family in the old country.
For example, in the case of minimarts in Canada, a S. Korean immigrant automatically gets a loan in the range of $200k and up at one bank if they can find a location for sale/lease and the ability to sponsor 3 or more family members to work there. It's just a matter of filling out the forms from the bank, and based on the previous successful affiliate history, the loan is approved.
Around 2000, during the Balkans wars, the Albanians funded their war chest from a roofing contractor business in NY that hired exclusively Albanian labor. There's a documentary showing them exporting a 50 cal AA rifle and other weapons to Albania, including considering leasing an airliner (!) to export more. The UN had to limit helicopter operations over their territory.
In Ottawa they seem to be of Indian decent.
In Ottawa taxi drivers were largely Lebanese. Also an empire of sorts. Operating vehicles 24/7 to maximize revenue per car.
Could you link to the Albanian documentary? That story is super fascinating.
in both this article about donut shops and the article about Bay Area motels, the "business visionary" grants personal loans to other immigrants who were already settled in the U.S. to bootstrap their own _separate_ businesses.
that this article was written ENTIRELY by AI.. ???