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Comment by lostlogin | Hacker News Reader

Internal hubs are amazing and so great to use, until you get a puncture. It’s such a nightmare and I went through so many of those dumb proprietary nuts that strip so easily. Bikes like the Cannondale Bad Boy have got me thinking, what if the single fork was at the rear? Then you could have an internal hub and change the tube without the extra suffering. Yes, the loading at the read would be significantly greater, but if it were possible it would make internal hubs much better.

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Oh god. I have a Ghost commuter bike with belt drive (came with Continental, but it broke and couldn't be replaced, so it was swapped to gates). Not only is a it a huge pain in the ass to carry two identical heavy wrenches in case you have to remove the wheel+belt in the field, and tension is hard to get right even at home, but of course the cable is extremely hard to remove the first handful of times (and which gear you have to be in changes from hub to hub), ... but my Ghost had a disc brake caliper located such that the caliper had to be removed in order to remove the rear wheel (the disc cannot just side out of the caliper, it hits the caliper body itself). Ugh.

Do you know you don't have to remove the wheel to repair a puncture ? Remove one side of the tire from the rim and pull the inner tube, then patch it.

Indeed. The only time you remove the wheel is to replace the tires.

Isn't hard to find small punctures with the tube still stuck around the wheel?

Partially inflate the tube after the tire is pulled aside, then run a mixture of soapy water over the tube. Sure, the tire is a bit in the way, but that is still less hassle than removing the wheel. The only real danger is that the tube needs to be treated carefully to keep it from snagging on things and causing more damage.

I don't think internal hubs are amazing :)

Derailer systems only absord energy in the chain and bearings, and a well maintained system can maybe lose 1.5% of energy. Internal hub gearing can lose around 15% energy.

The shop keeper won't tell you this, he just wants to sell you a bike. If he starts talking difficult things, buyers might just go to the next shop to buy what they had already chosen.

I got it for free as a hand-me-down so I do think I can be fairly objective about it. I’m surprised to hear the energy loss is that high. It was paired with fast tires and that bike could move quickly. The downsides of having to adjust and maintain the wheel position were not a worthwhile trade off though, but it was so close.

I have looked a several charts, and that is not an honest comparison. A derailleur will not be 1.5% energy loss across all gears. And I've not seen a chart for an internal hub that had 15% energy loss across all gears.

If you actually take a look at your derailleur system, you'll notice that a) the chain is not straight in all but a few settings, b) it has a somewhat complicated arm with an extra sprocket to keep the chain tight. And it is harder to protect it with a guard, so you end up with more dirt in the system if you use it every day.

But yes, internal hubs are heavier, generally somewhat less efficient, and better protected against the elements.

Internal hubs are amazing for the kind of bike that's always outside and gets maintenance beyond occasional tire pumping about as often as summer olympics are opened. Unfortunately SRAM stopped production of the T3 years ago, it was the perfect drive for a low maintenance, low value practical utility bike, providing the easy 80% of everything you want from bicycle gears for short distance commuting. Derailleur systems receiving a similar lack of maintenance are what turns people into short distance drivers.

> Derailleur systems receiving a similar lack of maintenance are what turns people into short distance drivers.

Funny, I thought it was my three young kids that did that.

I always had a mountain bike growing up. Having now transitioned to more of a road bike, the difference in rideability is pretty stark.

I guess it could be the derailleur, but I assumed it was the tires and gearset that made it a pain to get places. I also have noticed a night and day difference when my tires are properly inflated. I just replaced the tubes and tires so maybe I'll have better luck now, but previously I needed to refill the tires basically daily to keep them in the right range.

My nine year old isn't responsible enough to care for a derailleur (let alone park his bike instead of throwing it on the ground), but he can bike to school just fine with his internal hub and 15 % energy loss.

The only reasons for needing to reinflate every day should be:

1) using latex inner tubes. They’re lighter, but don’t hold air so well. Fine for racing, impractical for normal use

2) a slow puncture

3) broken valve

4) badly seated valve tip (dirt?)

Schwalbe recommends inflating once a month on butyl tubes.

The only internal geared hubs that lose 15% of energy are the ones that are constant variable ratio drives. The rest of them are extremely good and lose < 3% power, on par with a derailleur system that has seen regular maintenance, a bit worse than a derailleur in perfect (new!) shape.

You don’t always have to take a wheel off to fix a flat with a patch and completely tubeless setups are fairly commonplace now.

The Strida Evo works like that: hub gears, but both wheels are single fork.

bikes like that have existed, its possible. might be heavier by a bit.

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