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Comment by Rochus | Hacker News Reader

>> Not much for developers who are looking for interesting challenges .. From a Swiss person

This is simply not true. I'm Swiss and working as a developer and consultant in Switzerland since the nineties. I - as many others - was able to do several studies at a world-class university right on my doorstep without getting into debt. People are fair, hardworking, innovative and responsible. Switzerland has ideal conditions for companies and people looking for work. And it's a great place to live. Why do you think Google and others have large development departments in Switzerland? And it's also good for start-ups. Have a look at e.g. https://www.organisator.ch/die-100-besten-startups-der-schwe... and https://www.top100startups.swiss/index.cfm?page=136340&cfid=....

Also see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Swiss_companies_by_rev....

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Just came accross the 2019 Global Innovation Index report: https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_gii_2019.pdf

The ranking on page xxxiv says:

1. Switzerland 2. Sweden 3. United States of America 4. Netherlands 5. United Kingdom 6. Finland 7. Denmark 8. Singapore 9. Germany

... so not too bad after all.

This "is an annual ranking of countries by their capacity for, and success in, innovation. It is published by Cornell University, INSEAD, and the World Intellectual Property Organization, in partnership with other organisations and institutions,[1]:333 and is based on both subjective and objective data derived from several sources, including the International Telecommunication Union, the World Bank and the World Economic Forum" (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Innovation_Index).

This is not necessarily because Switzerland is high-tech friendly. There is an absolutely massive pharma industry in the country. Lots of innovation comes from there.

And you really don't think pharma qualifies as high-tech? Check e.g. for the OECD definition.

We are talking about Silicon Valley though. A specific kind of "high-tech". Regardless of what the OECD definition is, we are talking about computers/software/internet/etc.

No, it's about whether Switzerland is "Not much for developers who are looking for interesting challenges". Maybe you know that life science is one of the big computer, software and internet users and contributors; a lot of ground breaking machine learning developments happens in life science today.

> No, it's about whether Switzerland is "Not much for developers who are looking for interesting challenges"

"Switzerland – Europe's Silicon Valley for Developers..."

> Maybe you know that life science is one of the big computer, software and internet users and contributors; a lot of ground breaking machine learning developments happens in life science today.

Great. That's tech moving into life sciences, like tech is moving into every aspect of society. But that doesn't make life sciences a "tech field". The news industry is bringing in tech too. Doesn't make the news industry a tech field.

But whatever I'm happy that tech is making inroads in switzerland.

You didn't read the article, did you? The original title is "Is Switzerland better than Silicon Valley for software developers?" and it is about the Swiss tech scene and the demand and attractiveness for developers. It e.g. says "according to The State of European Tech 2019 study, Switzerland is maintaining a steady pace to become European leading technology country."

It then refers to the article "Here’s why Switzerland is a world innovation leader" (https://www.wearedevelopers.com/blog/heres-why-switzerland-i...).

> that doesn't make life sciences a "tech field"

Where does all this wisdom come from?

The context of the GP comments and the whole discussion, it's the "high-tech" in an IT sense of the term. Hence my remark.

The high innovation ranking of Switzerland is most certainly not due to its computer/IT-related innovation. That's the point.

> is most certainly

So you're just assuming.

You are switching the subject.

No. You are. If you have really read the referenced article you must have noticed that its title is "Is Switzerland better than Silicon Valley for software developers?" (which has a rather different meaning than the title of this post, but maybe attracts less clicks) and it is about the Swiss tech scene and the demand and attractiveness for developers. I've answered to the unfounded reproach that Switzerland was "Not much for developers who are looking for interesting challenges". You then claimed that pharma wasn't high-tech, which is not true and overlooks the fact that a growing number of computer scientists work for life science. From my personal experience I can tell you that there are extremely interesting challenges, and a lot of ground breaking machine learning developments happen there today. It's not enough to just quickly read the headline and then claim some stuff without any basis. Are you Swiss? Do you work in Switzerland? Do you have any relevant experience supporting your claims?

(The reason Google has an office here is because Urs Hölzle studied at ETH at knew people here.)

Not just studied; he is Swiss!

I mean, the name is kind of a giveaway ;)

He made his PhD at Stanford in the nineties and had a company with Bak and others in Palo Alto and still lives there. So no, I don't think that was the reason. And apparently Google values its Zurich location so much that it is constantly being expanded, see e.g. https://www.blick.ch/schweiz/15-jahre-in-der-schweiz-so-sieh.... So obviously it's not just an office.

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