Linus Torvalds would like to use an M1 Mac for Linux, but | Hacker News Reader

Linus Torvalds would like to use an M1 Mac for Linux, but

zdnet.com

51 pointspabs315 comments

> Apple likes to run Linux in their cloud but not on their computers.

Truly the saddest part here, since they are being difficult on purpose it seems.

Logical consequence of privatized innovation? Combined with freely available open innovation, that open innovation will surely be used where the private entities see fit, while keeping their own innovation private. Interestingly enough Apple does contribute to FLOSS, it's not a strict one way street.

I think Linux will run on it at some point. Remember this Linus quote:

> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.

And yet we have quite a list going:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux-supported_comput...

I think it's to avoid creating common search terms as "Macbook no wifi driver" or "Macbook battery halved" out of linux usage.

One thing to remember though, is that the M1 chip is super optimized for macOS and perhaps these optimizations do not make it the best fit for any other os:

According to John Gruber:

> retaining and releasing NSObjects is so common on MacOS (and iOS), that making it 5 times faster on Apple Silicon than on Intel has profound implications on everything from performance to battery life.

https://daringfireball.net/2020/11/the_m1_macs

https://www.singhkays.com/blog/apple-silicon-m1-black-magic/

If the M1 chip is also able to run Linux, I would be sending my order now.

I am not sure if they do not want to do it because it requires more support or if they will do it once a few releases of the M chips are done and its more stable in the market.

Indeed, same here. Low power, relatively cheap, amazing single thread performance, great multicore performance, amazing memory system (30ns or so to main memory), decent GPU included, neural engine, etc.

The Ryzen 5000 based APUs to be announced at CES should be in the same ball park. More power intensive, no neural engine, likely a much worse memory system. But all in all should run normal apps almost as well.

Yeah the lack of dual boot worries me.

The article's main point is that Apple would need to open up internal documentation to support Linux on M1. I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

Apple's long term strategy is to lock you in into their app ecosystem so that leaving Photos.app behind eventually becomes unbearable. Once you are properly locked in by the software, you then have to buy their hardware even in those cases where it is not in your best interest, e.g. the desktop Mac Pro.

If you look at their recent financial reports, Apple makes its money increasingly from services like iCloud. That only works if you heavily use their apps.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were selling the M1-based Macs on a loss to reel you into their apps and services ecosystem.

Microsoft and Sony have been doing the same play with their consoles for decades.

And that's why Apple cannot tolerate a 3rd party OS on M1. At least in my opinion...

> I wouldn't be surprised if they were selling the M1-based Macs on a loss to reel you into their apps and services ecosystem

You do not understand Apple's business. They sell hardware, and have the biggest profit margin in the industry. With the M1 they've probably increased their margin because they no longer have to pay Intel.

Their services served as incentive to buy their hardware. Only recently have they realized that they could also monetize some of their services, but it remains secondary to their core business model.

The M1 is a new process node, so yields will probably be horrible, at least for now. If I remember correctly, that's also why there is a 3090 shortage. Plus Apple has some billions to recoup. So it'll surely take a while before the M1 MacBooks become profitable.

the more M1s they can sell that run linux would increase profit (at least if they could make enough to satisfy mac and linux demands and if linux demand wouldn't undercut mac demand significantly)

Yes...but how do you sell even more hardware? If your users are locked by not having alternatives because of your software. So what you're saying is correct, and what the parent comment says is also correct.

They might not make as much money from software, but that software leads to more hardware sales.

If people started to use linux on macs, and they find everything they need works fine, some people might consider cheaper alternatives to macs

At the moment they would sell their hardware with very good CPUs. We already want those laptops, but since they don't run linux (some of us) won't buy them. I guess it depends on which group is larger.

> but since they don't run linux (some of us) won't buy them. I guess it depends on which group is larger.

The frustrating thing with us geeks is that we overestimate our market segment. At Apple's scale, we are insignificant.

As a publicly-traded company, Apple publishes a fair amount of operating info, such as their sales for their various product lines:

https://investor.apple.com/investor-relations/default.aspx

From there, looking at the 2020 Q4 "Financial Statements" PDF, we can find the "sales by category" and see that in the "12-month ending Sept 26 2020" they sold $28,622M worth of Mathe previous year. Alternatively, they sold $9,032M in Q4 2020 (July-Sept) vs $6,991M in Q4 2019.

Of course we'll have to wait another quarter to get a glimpse of how well the new M1-based macs sell (while considering that they're only part of Apple's Mac lineup.)

It entirely depends what they pay TSMC for producing a massive die on the brand new 5nm process.

I could easily imagine them paying a lot... Everyone wants some 5nm stuff, and apple probably had to outbid every other company.

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