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Comment by dcolkitt | Hacker News Reader

There are good paying jobs outside STEM. Finance, consulting, media, law (especially IP law if you have a bachelors in STEM), etc.

If an engineering grad decides to become an actuary or management consultant or investment banker, that doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't find a STEM job.

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Ontario Society of Professional Engineers did a study on engineering labour maker in Ontario 5 years ago. Their findings show that this is not the reason behind the majority of people with engineering degrees doing non-engineering work. I don't know how the results compare to those in the US or UK, but it certainly is an eye-opening data point. Some highlights:

- According to the 2011 NHS, only 29.7 per cent (67,045 out of 225,490) of employed individuals in Ontario with bachelor’s degrees or higher in engineering were working as engineers or engineering managers. A further 37 per cent (83,365 out of 225,490) worked in professional positions that normally require a university degree. In other words, only just over 65 per cent of employed Ontarians with engineering degrees were gainfully employed in professions that normally require or benefit from having a university degree.

- Those who were not working as engineers and were working in positions that don’t necessarily require a degree made up fully 33.3 per cent (75,090 out of 225,490) of the total.

So, as an engineering graduate, you are more likely to work in a job that does not require a degree, than in a job that requires an engineering degree.

https://www.ospe.on.ca/public/documents/advocacy/2015-crisis...

3 things: MBAs, Finance and Consulting.

Engineering filters heavily for analytical skills and is math heavy.

That's one problem right there: overfinancialization crowding out the productive economy.

I'd be curious to interview incoming freshmen.

I'm sure there's a percentage of them enrolling in engineering with absolutely no intention of practicing it either.

> I'm sure there's a percentage of them enrolling in engineering with absolutely no intention of practicing it either.

Yes. And that percentage is 1%. Figure 1 in the linked report addresses this.

Intents of 2013 Ontario engineering students after graduation to work in engineering:

- 57% Yes, I definitely will

- 35% Yes, I probably will

- 7% No, I probably won’t

- 1% No, I definitely won’t

All of those are among the professions which require a degree. The 1/3 who end up in professions that does not require any degree are not those who have gone into management or finance.

Ahh I didn't realize.

I assumed it was professions that have a licensing requirement where you must have a specific degree (like having an MD to practice medicine) vs some areas of finances where you don't need a particular diploma to pass the required SEC exams or certifications.

I have not read the full methodology. But if I were to make an educated guess, I would say they used NOC (National Occupation Code) for determining what does or does not require a degree. NOC divides all occupations into 4 skill levels, from A (occupations that usually require university education) to D (occupations that usually do not require even a secondary school diploma). Most probably, they used the same framework and tallied the number of people in engineering, other A level occupations, and everyone else. Finance and consulting are definitely A level.

https://noc.esdc.gc.ca/Structure/NocProfile/36841eebd34e457e...

https://noc.esdc.gc.ca/Structure/NocProfile/f9c47da9dd2644f3...

Makes more sense, thanks!

This talks specifically about the regulated and licensed profession of “Engineering”, which excludes most of Software jobs.

Yes. I was responding to the parent, which talked about STEM in general. This report is mostly about the E, although it mentions the T and M as well, for example in Figure 4 on page 10.

A good number of lifescience graduates at regional colleges aim for nursing, also because it's about the only paying career that's left. The Department of Education reports a median salary of 54.5 kUSD for a nursing graduate at my regional college, meanwhile a chemical contract manufacturer nearby recently advertised a skilled BSc job for 35 kUSD. It's a mystery how you can make rent and student loan payment on that and have money left over for food.

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