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> I don't understand why Weight Watchers even exists. Just cut out the sugar, move around, and eat more plants.

That's like asking a chain smoker to just stop buying cigarettes and have an apple instead.

We have to get to terms with the fact that obesity is an epidemic that has to be treated the same way tobacco has.

Stop putting so damn much sugar and salt into processed food. More physical education in schools and pre-schools/kindergarten (it's appalling how much the motor skills of children have deteriorated compared to previous generations). School gardens for every school so children can learn from an early age what food even is, how its grown and what it actually tastes like.

It's a bunch of measures that need to be taken and while it might be simple for some people (like you for example) to change their lifestyle, it's really hard for most.

> Just cut out the sugar

This is a great example for why it's so hard: most processed food (and even bread) contains tons of added sugar without the consumer even realising it. It's not necessarily the donuts, the chocolate, or candy bars. It's the sodas, fast food, bread, parfait, fruit drinks, the canteen food, etc. The practise varies from country to country, but some (e.g. Mexico) had to pull the emergency brake already and limit the amount of added sugar by law.

Since sugar is highly addictive, it's hard to let go of these products, especially since most of us are conditioned to primarily consume highly processed junk basically from birth.

The scary thing is that there is significant evidence that being overweight as a toddler dramatically increases risk to be obese as an adult. So really we need to start way before school, parent education is really important.

> Stop putting so damn much sugar and salt into processed food

I can't express how discouraging this is, at least in the United States. The high school I graduated from had a well meaning principal that believed milk was good for you and soft drinks were bad for you. By her reasoning, chocolate milk would at least encourage the students to drink milk, and the benefits of milk would outweigh the costs of having a ton of sugar. All of the soft drinks were taken out of the vending machines and replaced with "Vitamin Water". So our cafeteria was stocked with chocolate milk, orange juice, and vitamin water. The general public seems to be completely ignorant to why this is a problem. People I care deeply about are having health problems that I can't help but feel would be alleviated if they stopped drinking diet caffeine-free soft drinks as if it were an acceptable substitute for water.

> That's it. It's simple.

It is, but it's really REALLY not. I'd bet that most everyone knows what they should be eating and doing to lose weight / be healthy. It's probably obvious to most adults. Some people just have conditions where they can NOT lose weight. And then there's the rest of us. We know it's that simple. We know we should not eat a bag of Doritos for dinner. We know a pint of ice cream is not a snack. But it's what our bodies crave, and fighting that takes energy and focus. And today we had a bad day at work. Today when we got home we had to fight with the kids to do homework. This weekend there's a big party and we're not ready. Next week there's a huge project due at work. Are we going fight the urge to eat a bag of cheese balls before bed? Nope, we just don't have the energy. We'll start next week, when there's not so much going on.

As simple as it seems to you, it's not at all simple for many MANY people. They need help, and they need support. And that's why Weight Watchers exists. Losing weight is somehow simultaneously very easy and nearly impossibly hard for most of us.

Simple is not the same as easy. Weight loss is one of the most extreme examples of “dead simple, but mind-meltingly difficult” there is.

> We know we should not eat a bag of Doritos for dinner. We know a pint of ice cream is not a snack. But it's what our bodies crave, and fighting that takes energy and focus.

Why does it take so much energy to decline to buy bad things that we 'know' are bad?

Good question, one of many that if we had answers for I bet people would be much happier. Some of us don't control what comes into the house for various reasons, I know that's one answer.

> Some people just have conditions where they can NOT lose weight.

Of course the laws of thermodynamics say that is impossible. You will lose weight if you don't eat. You may not lose weight if you eat moderately, while another person will.

Doesn't your third sentence contradict your second sentence?

If you believe it's "impossible" for people to have conditions where they can't lose weight (in other words: different people experience different difficulty levels in modifying their body composition), then why would you go on to claim that "you may not lose weight if you eat moderately, while another person will"?

It does not contradict, no. I can lose weight eating moderately but you may not. You may need to eat bordering on starvation to lose weight, which in my book is not "moderate".

Basically, my point is, some people have to suffer more to lose weight. But all people will lose weight regardless if they stop eating, because physics.

This tired tendency to reduce weight control to physics is patently counterproductive. It's about as helpful as pointing out to a smoker that they'd quit smoking regardless of how addicted they are, if only they could smoke progressively fewer cigarettes, because logic and definitions. Technically correct, but misses the point entirely.

Agreed, it’s also about progressively moving the diet.

I lost 9kg down from 97 to 88 not changing much. Still want to go down more to 85, then ill be below bmi 25. :)

I strive to still eat three full meals a day.

- stop eating after dinner, just drink tea (this took about 4 months to get comfortable with. Dropped 6 kg using this technique. Over the course of 6 months.

My weight plateaued for two months, so I changed the following.

- cut out the afternoon snack and changed breakfast to one egg and a bowl of oatmeal. I’m now losing approximately 1 kg a month again.

My weight loss is quite slow and varies day by day +/- 2kg, only over multiple months do I see results on the scale. Recently I’ve also started seeing changes to my gut and shape.

Maybe this will help other people in their weight loss journey. It’s not easy losing weight, but small changes over time can have results. I enjoy using the iPhone health app and then the year view as it averages out the daily variations. I log my weight every morning when I get out of bed.

"I don't understand why Weight Watchers even exists. Just cut out the sugar, move around, and eat more plants. "

Too many people are still in thrall of the calories in - calories out principle.

It seems to appeal especially to nerds, the idea of reducing something as complex as metabolism into a simple accounting trick is just too attractive, and so is the idea that only "unused, extra energy" gets converted to body fat and that everything is question of raw willpower.

It is not so simple, if you live in a state of chronic hyperinsulinemia, you won't be able to mobilize stored fat, it is just biochemically impossible, adipose cells just will not release any stored fat if insulin is high. Of course, then you start to be hungry, then you eat some 'extra' calories even though you have ample fat reserves.

But the core of the problem isn't willpower. It is inability of the human body to burn its own fat for consumption if insulin levels are chronically high.

Of course, that leads to weight gain. And one of the main culprits is sugar. Excessive amounts of sugar will mess with your insulin secretion and sensitivity.

Yeah, but you’re usually only hyperinsulinemic if you’re obese or diabetic. Calories-in, calories out works perfectly for everybody else (including obese people before they get obese).

Willpower certainly is the problem for most people.

"you’re usually only hyperinsulinemic if you’re obese or diabetic."

Is that true or just an artifact of screening? Hyperinsulinemia is not really well researched in "normal" population, because measurement of insulin in blood is not trivial; there are no simple devices similar to glucometers that could easily and affordably measure your current insulin level.

Eating a modern diet laced with hidden sugar is a surefire way to increase your total insulin level.

It is not as if a healthy pancreas has a choice. It automatically releases insulin as a response to certain stimuli, including sugar, but also interestingly protein. Only pure fat is "invisible" to pancreas AFAIK.

"Willpower certainly is the problem for most people. "

Why was this not a problem prior to 1980? It is not as if we switched from hunter and gatherer society straight into postmodern world in 1980. People back then drove cars and ate in restaurants, and look at the photos: they looked far healthier. The fattest US state of 1980 was still much less fat than the fittest US state of 2020.

Why the same people who have a willpower problem can tolerate their bratty teenagers, rise up at 5 am to go to work, pull through arduous work etc.? After all, you would expect them to lack willpower generally, not in just one specific domain.

Humans are the same as they were. What changed is the amount of processed food and especially sugar in our diets. A lot.

> People back then drove cars and ate in restaurants, and look at the photos: they looked far healthier.

They looked thinner, but afaik we are healthier all in all. Thin and healthy are not synonyms.

We got much better in managing chronic diseases, and we smoke a lot less. So far, so good.

But diabetes 2nd type or chronic non-alcoholic steatosis were much, much rarer than today in < 50 population. Orders of magnitude rarer.

This is a significant disease load.

People are less active today than in 1980. They work, and recreate, sitting still in front of a screen far more than people did in 1980. Even in professional jobs there was more walking around because there was no email, chat, etc.

People take in more calories today than in 1980, primarily through prepared foods. The guy in this blog post said he eats out for every meal. Basically no one but the super rich did that in 1980. Prepared food prices have fallen a lot since 1980.

Calories in/calories out is the only way that the human body can change mass, short of excision. However, it’s very hard to accurately keep track of calories.

There are some chicken-and-egg problems buried in there.

Are people more fat today because they are less active, or are they less active because they are fatter? After all, it is no joy to move around with 30 or 50 lbs of extra fat. There seems to be a vicious cycle at work.

"Calories in/calories out is the only way that the human body can change mass"

True, but unproductive when it comes to understanding the phenomenon of rising obesity. WHY people consume more calories? What drives them? This is not a trivial question and without being fairly sure about the answer, we will not solve the situation.

An analogy: the only way that humans become alcoholics is by drinking a lot of alcohol. But that does not explain root causes of alcoholism, it is only a relatively trivial observation of the proximate cause. The reasons why some people can't keep their alcohol intake within harmless amounts and slide all the way to the bottom are anything but trivial.

> Calories-in, calories out works perfectly for everybody else (including obese people before they get obese). [...] Willpower certainly is the problem for most people.

It just does not. If you focus on that only, it leads to diet that makes you feel like crap all the time. It makes you low energy, so you struggle or flat cant maintain performance and precision in work. It makes you irritable and it makes it much harder for you to handle normal stresses - meaning your kids and wife and coworkers basically suffer.

And what it does is that people eventually decide it is not worth it.

A relative recently lost about 25kg(55lbs) from about 100kg. While what he did feels a bit extreme to me, he only completely removed carbs and sugar from his diet. And he didn't even go to the gym. I am not sure I will be able to survive without carbs though.

> That's it. It's simple.

It's not because something is simple that it is easy. Glad it worked for you, but let's not assume too much about an entire population based on your own experience.

> Just cut out the sugar,

This massively depends on how much sugar your diet have. I mean, plenty of us have issue with eating too much bacon.

Can you expand on the starch thing? I’ve never heard that.

Also any tips for tennis elbow? I’ve been resting it for weeks and no improvement!

Likely referring to resistant starch- "Resistant starches are carbohydrates that resist digestion in the small intestine and move to the large intestine where they get fermented. Meaning, the fibers from resistant starches when broken down via fermentation can provide gut benefits in the large intestine."

From: https://camillathyme.com/2019/09/22/the-simple-potato-salad-...

Thanks. Seems like potato salad still boils the potatoes though. Is he saying some of the resistant starch returns when it’s chilled?

I’m now racking my brain trying to think of ways to eat potatoes and corn without cooking! No luck yet.

The wiki article has some more info. This sentence does seem to indicate that the smaller glucose chains reassemble into larger starches in a crystallization process. "The glucose chains can reassociate into short crystalline structures, which typically involves rapid recrystallization of amylose molecules followed by a slow recrystallization of amylopectin molecules in a process called retrogradation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistant_starch

Do you mean apart from strong prescription anti inflammatory medication?

I feel torn on fighting inflammation. It seems like that’s the signal that tells your body to heal.

I agree, but also my understanding is that as we get older there is a general base level of ongoing inflammation that needs to be considered.

Awesome! I also don't own a vehicle on purpose these days--it forces me to walk for miles almost every day, which I've grown to love.

I haven't heard about that starch foods being okay when cold thing, care to elaborate?

Don't believe it. It's simply portion sizes. Just look at McDonalds meals. It's shocking how much they've grown. It's been a while since I looked it up, but a normal meal in the 50s was what is today a kid's meal. Hamburger (1), small (!) fries (that might not even be sold anymore), and a small drink (250ml).

Want to eat pancakes? Eat a small amount. With butter. It's fine. Don't eat a stack that is shown in ads.

Want fries? Eat two normal potatoes fried in beef fat. Not potatoes the size of a human head.

It is conscious work to retrain your stomach, but it is possible. I'm saying this as somebody who just ate 2 slices of bread (1 sandwich) and now feels like I can't move, where before I'd easily eat 6 slices. That was my breakfast (at lunch), I haven't even had an earlier meal.

No bodily exhaustion, no pain, no excessive time commitments, no money (you even save money!), no feeling the need to punish and taking revenge on yourself, just being conscious.

Works well with alcohol consumption, too. Ask me how I know how those big red wine glasses which fit 25% of the bottle are bullshit, same as pints. Those are two portions, easily. Look at old photographs: The glasses are tiny.

You can reduce the portion overall or you can use the 80/20 pareto principle to reduce the worst offenders. The second approach seems like a better plan and easier. The first is a hard habit to maintain, the second is much easier to maintain.

It isn't just portion sizes as your other replier has mentioned.

Like I said in the previous comment, I applied a lot of energy studying nutrition in order to simplify it for myself and I have other take aways I didn't post and there is more complexity than I let on, but I try not to make people understand 99% of an issue with 10x the text when they could understand 90% of the issue and remember it.

But since you asked, there are different types of starches. Some of them, like the ones that come from potatoes, are fine if they are either uncooked or cooked then cooled. The reason potatoes taste so good is that they are extremely nutritious in every other way other than starch. They're a super food with an achilles heel.

You can research resistant starch and where it's found and under what circumstance on your own, but here is a starting point:

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/resistant-starch-101#ty...

Also, since you seem to like the details, I also found that other than fibre, my natural Torontonian diet was pretty deficient in potassium, which makes recovery from working out take longer. So I went out of my way to eat more of it and I was able to make much better gains working out. It also felt less painful to work out while I was working out. Try not to eat it at the same time as salt, since IIRC the uptake pathways compete with each other. And note that the lowly banana is only a good source of potassium per calorie not in general. Eating one per day does very little, which surprised me.