Best US City for a software engineer during Covid? | Hacker News Reader

Best US City for a software engineer during Covid?

18 pointsnus0722 comments

I cannot justify paying $3000 in the Bay Area while everything is closed and I cannot experience the energy and networking opportunities this region offers. My partner and I are considering moving to a low COL city with good tech jobs, a balanced economy and something that is closest to how the Bay Area and America was in the late 90s and early 2000s when everything wasn’t driven by a hyper focus on money. Something tech,plaid, hippy and Alanis Morissette.

Does a place like that still exist in America?

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I'll add a case for Louisville, KY. Extremely low cost of living compared to the Bay Area. Not as tech-focused as you might like, but still a healthy amount of tech (especially in Healthcare and Health Insurance, which will likely remain perennial). What it lacks in tech-centrism, it gains in a balanced economy with a strong mix of every collared job. Certainly has its plaid/hippy/hipster/Alanis Morissette sides to it as well. It's an extremely foody city, operating as it does as a central hub of sorts for a number of regions of cuisine, and at times has been favorably compared to LA or NYC in terms of high ranking restaurants per capita, yet obviously at a substantial COL discount.

Kentucky could use all the help it can get to reverse its brain drain out to the coasts, and now is a great time, with so many more remote work opportunities and the overall reevaluation of COL in a time of a pandemic, to try to fix that. (It's the only way to combat nonsense like the terrible mess of what Kentucky keeps sending to the US Senate, by adding more smart people and counteracting the brain drain.)

It's not going to be on a lot of folks' radars, but Louisville, KY is a great big city that still feels like a small town in the right ways. But you don't have to take my word for it, I'm sure the chamber of commerce would love to pamphlet you to death and has better marketing copy than what I would right extemporaneously.

As someone who grew up and lives on the coast, I had no idea what to expect the first time I visited Louisville a few years back.

I was blown away how beautiful it was and how welcoming people were, in addition to it being a fun place to be. It was nothing like the other midwest cities I had been to, seemed to me much more vibrant and scenic at the same time.

I’ve been looking at this and traveling/living it during the Covid craziness - here are my conclusions of top places FWIW:

Austin - it’s grown to be a mini-SF (in the good things) - lots of tech, people, nightlife - but in Texas - so lower taxes, much cheaper (and likely to stay that way, because lots of room for sprawl). Very nice. A bit empty during Covid like all cities, but nothing like SF right now.

Boulder, Colorado Springs etc - a lot of Bay Area people have come here recently (and in the past), beautiful nature, tech scene - but fairly expensive (not SF, but still), and real winter here - I don’t know if I see it becoming a big hub, and I don’t know if there would be enough good jobs going forward, but definitely a nice spot.

Salt Lake City/Park City - very underrated until recently, affordable, lots of tech people have come out, fairly affordable, beautiful nature and town, very nice vibe, decent tech scene. Real winter here too. Could see this becoming a real contender in the future.

Boise - haven’t been personally, but I hear good things from friends of mine. Affordable, decent tech scene, great cost of living.

Honorable mentions:

San Diego - great place, a bit crazy during Covid and city is a bit shut down (like most cities), it’s a bit expensive (not SF, but still), ok tech scene, beautiful weather.

Raleigh/Durham - nice, decent tech, good lifestyle. Pretty spread out (a triangle of three cities), so a lot of driving.

Hawaii - this should be the best remote tech hub, but it isn’t yet. Beautiful place, not that expensive (relatively). But you gotta work remote (not much tech locally) and wait a week for Amazon.

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Hope this helps! Please add to this list if you have good ideas..

> Hawaii - this should be the best remote tech hub, but it isn’t yet. Beautiful place, not that expensive (relatively). But you gotta work remote (not much tech locally) and wait a week for Amazon.

Under this reasoning, don't overlook the similar lifestyle benefits of the US Virgin Islands, if you can work remote. Some of them are already the paper headquarters for tax dodge reasons of some of the companies you could potentially remote for. (Maybe they would appreciate the irony of actually having a workforce in their "headquarters".)

Also, too, San Juan (Puerto Rico) is a major, densely populous and diverse US city with most of what that implies in terms of amenities and such (book shops, coffee shops, fast food, etc), if you don't mind learning at least a little bit more Spanish.

One thing killing Hawaii is its education system; relative to the high cost of living, teacher and per-pupil spending is quite low, with proficiency and graduation rates to match.

This is important if you want to raise kids.

Other than SF, no. You'd do better to change your tastes - "plaid, hippy and Alanis Morissette" - b/c then you would have many more choices.

https://twitter.com/wongmjane/status/1330894344228749314 this thread had interesting answers of alternatives to SF.

There's Pittsburgh. COL is significantly lower than SF. It's a smaller city and there are fewer jobs, but you some some headquarters there, like Duolingo, and several branch offices, like Google, Facebook, and Amazon. There are several university, such as Carnegie Melon, which brings in AI and self-driving related jobs at places like ArgoAI and Uber. Being a bit of a university city, there are a ton of young people so that might help with the "plaid, hippy and Alanis Morissette" vibe that you want.

Outside the city is typical PA, so a bit redneck and change in demographic, but it gives a good amount of variety. Surrounding area has plenty of nature, if you're into that (biking, paddling, climbing, fishing, hunting, etc...). Weather is decent. Winter doesn't tend to snow that much (avg 28in/yr) and the temperature rarely drops below 0F. Hell, I'd say below 10F is fairly rare, maybe a few nights each year. The roads can suck, but you'll hear that everywhere.

PA state income tax is relatively low, even with the extra 1-2% municipal tax if you live in the city.

Just posted to HN about this not ten minutes ago, lol. [1]

I live in Providence, RI and work remotely for companies in San Fran, New York, Boston... worth looking into. Rent is $1300.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25199374

Are you going to move back after the pandemic?

I'm actually planning on buying a big chunk of land in a rural part of Rhode Island and building a house there heh.

You might check out (get paid up to 10k to move):

https://www.movebuddha.com/blog/get-paid-to-move/

Some international options:

https://www.helsinkibusinesshub.fi/90-day-finn/

https://www.outsite.co/blog/best-visas-for-digital-nomads

> Something tech,plaid, hippy and Alanis Morissette.

Portland has got you covered. Rent prices are even down.

> the energy and networking opportunities ... good tech jobs, balanced economy ... wasn’t driven by a hyper focus on money

You shape your environment, as much as it shapes you. This is a list of careerist wishes. Not that there’s anything wrong with it per se, but if it’s careerism without chase for money then go for a city big on public service and charity work. Else, it’s not SF you’re running away from.

Early 2000s it was already all about money. I think you are talking about the 70s?

Best is to get a job in NY (b/c the salaries are high wrt other cities) and then "temporarily evacuate for COVID" to a home office in a smaller city. You keep the NY salary and perks but have the benefits of living/working at home.

OP probably works for a company in SF where salaries are higher than in NY

I would like to hear opinions on Chicago, both during COVID and Pre/Post COVID.

Figured I should ask, if Chicagoans are not replying, why not?

My 2c - It’s basically a smaller NYC, decent tech scene, not quite as pricey (but still pricey), and the winters are coooold and windy.

If being in a tech hub is important to you, Austin or Denver are the closest cities I can think of that might work. (Austin is cheaper than Denver and has better weather IMO.)

If that is less important, I would vouch for Oklahoma City or Atlanta.

SF is where you want to be. Dig in, set roots.

If "tech,plaid, hippy and Alanis Morissette" is mandatory, it's either SF or Portland. Have fun.

I wouldn’t move right now. There’s a pushback against tech workers invading the sticks and you might get beaten up.

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