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Comment by pontus | Hacker News Reader

I would say that the exception is grad school which is much more meritocratic than undergraduate admissions.

I've heard that, but at the same time the people that go to top grad schools are also overwhelmingly people from top undergrads, likely because of professor relationships.

I've talked to several people about my profile for grad school and the consensus is it's not good enough given my undergrad stature. I've talked to folks from schools like CMU and UIUC who got into elite grad schools without papers or ~3.9+ GPAs, but I'm already out of the running with these things with a degree from NC State.

It's incredibly depressing to know I'm already shut out of most forms of social mobility at 24!

I’m not sure I buy this.

If you’re wanting to go to grad school, go to grad school. Maybe you don’t go to an Ivy, but if you’re after the grad school experience then an Ivy is a nice potential bonus, not a necessary thing.

The opportunity cost of ~$150k a year x2-6 years doesn't work out unless it's an "impressive' name. NC State + Northeastern, for instance, on a resume doesn't engender respect even if they're both fine institutions on their own. NC State + MIT for instance does, but according to the several MIT profs I've talked to my resume straight up does not and will not cut it, so I'm sort of unimpressive for life as it seems.

Yes, the profs do not want deadheads doing their research...

More so because grad students receive grants that cover their tuition and some basic salary. In other words, unlike undergraduate students, graduate students actually costs money.

Are you sure you’re thinking of master’s students and not PhDs?

Not all grad students get a salary. In particular older grad students who support other people and can't afford to live on a grad student stipend (which is a starvation wage for one, let alone more) and therefore must work a job while in grad school do not get any stipend, they pay their way. Which is of course a much easier arrangement for the student to manage if they have a trust fund or wealthy family to dip into (speaking to the article at hand)

"More so because grad students receive grants that cover their tuition and some basic salary."

That only tends to be true for PHD programs where the student is expected to work on research that actually brings in grant money.

That's not true for all grad programs. Some are not research-focused at all, and for those the student usually has to pay their own way or get other forms of financial aid (which not all students qualify for).

Even if they do qualify for financial aid, they might not get any, if the limited amount that is available has already been given out to other qualified students.

The abuse of grad and PhD students might be even more egregious than undergrad admissions. Paying objectively world class talent a meager $15,000 stipend to work themselves to the bone while they earn the university millions in grants and industry contracts, teach undergrad classes, and slave away on their own thesis. It’s super gross.

Well .. there is an upside to this. Typically grad students who are employed by the university as RA or TA don't have to pay tuition . About 18 months of misery that opens up a world of opportunities.

Highly dependent on the field nowadays IMO. A lot of masters programs exist as a way to make it easier to get a US visa.

18 months of misery for a Master ~7 years of misery for a PhD

Please propose a solution too!

I work with many PhDs so I’m familiar with the problems. But I don’t know enough to have a solution.

It may just be “pay them a living wage!”. Pay them $75,000 and call it a day. The waived tuition cost is BS. They aren’t undergrads living on campus and taking a half dozen classes. It doesn’t cost $50,000 / year to have a PhD student do lots of work for the school. Quite the opposite! The school makes a lot of money of their labor!!

At least for STEM PhDs at research universities.

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