The biology of dads
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I became a father quite a bit before most of my friends, and so was the butt of some jokes about masculinity for the way I parented (purely just the poking fun between good, old friends), but perhaps as a result of fatherhood, where my former reaction to those jokes would have been embarrassment, my new reaction was to think that my friends were childish for not being able to understand how it felt to be a father who loved his children.
Also, somewhat ironic, but my willingness to "go to battle" for my family is far greater than my willingness to "go to battle" for anything before having a family, to an extent that becoming a father has made me far more assertive, confident, and willing to take responsibility, which makes me more "masculine" if you so happen to define masculinity that way...
IMO this really describes almost everyone, not just fathers. There's a pretty big disconnect between our cultural ideal, and reality. Half of American men are fat whether they have a kid or not.
As someone who isn't a native-born American, is that really your cultural ideal? Warriors and athletes?
Because to an outsider that just seems...laughable at best, and for more reasons than just rampant obesity.
Warriors around means that you have to go home shortest route and watch whether the room is dangerous.
Athletes have good bodies, but that is about it.
In think warrior ideal describes exactly that. You've got tools, skills and internal readiness to be the danger but you're not until it's necessary
It's laughable because it is so far from reality, not because the ideals are something to be laughed at.
I felt the most pride in my life watching my step-daughter get her diploma. I, a masculine man who was taught to bottle it all up and stuff upper lip, cried like a baby.
Those who have kids know. Those who don’t just will never understand.
Oh come on, I was agreeing with your comment until this totally unnecessary condescension.
Part of being a mature person (which you imply to claim you are) is the knowledge that whatever you know isn’t necessarily special to your experience, and that other people may arrive at it through a different set of experiences. In this case, being proud of someone whom you love and whose well-being you actively contributed to isn’t an exclusive domain of parents or step-parents, but also of teachers and caretakers in orphanages who are capable of fulfilling the role. “Having a kid” isn’t a requirement here.
Not a better person, just happier.
On balance the knowledge is worth it to me.
Not saying I agree with parent that I'd be happier for sure in some ways, but I sure didn't expect so much psychological pain in addition to the hard work of raising kids.
"[...] each time psychology, psychiatry, and psychotherapy have begun to take trauma seriously, it has been shut down by people denying that it’s even a thing, and suggesting that those who are traumatised are making it up or exaggerating its impact. When Freud first published a paper pointing out that most of the people with mental health struggles he was working with had experienced childhood and/or adult sexual abuse and assault, he was ignored and shut down. He went on to shift to a theory that suggested his patients had fantasised those things: they couldn’t possibly actually had happened. This is pretty terrifying now that we know the statistics on the prevalence of abuse and assault."
My new therapist asks 2-3x per session 'but no one raised a fuss with CPS'? What? I was very well treated compared to most kids from my neighbourhood & cohort. I was fed, clothed, and my health was somehow cared for, at least when obviously sick. Sleeping in my own bed in a stable home, a roof over my head. Not to much abuse, at least not everyday. Most of my mates didn't have this luck. The slaps in school by their parents, the pulled hair or ears to obtain compliance, the insults, pushing around, threats of sleeping on the ground or outside, the black eyes, belt scars, the never washed clothes and body, the 'forgotten' breakfasts or dinners, the rotten teeth, the neglected vision problems...
I mean it wasn't Oliver Twist but some of us had it GOOD.
Gimme helicopter parenting and too many activities. The pendulum hasn't swung that much on that side than it had on the other...
Sorry, I hate the 'helicopter parenting' expression.
FWIW I agree about our modern vices. Phones, twitter, HN, everything-gamification...
It doesn't have to be a great perfect day, just two minutes or twenty seconds of a hug with a person who loves and cares for you unconditionally, and you back... It's... powerful. Moving. Like a gift from you to you, and a gift to the world, trying to raise new beaming, can-do, positive-energy to build the world of tomorrow. It sounds silly but I believe the phrase.
Cheers.
I'd bet the "for my family" part is critical to this statement though, and in the modern "Western" world, at least, such circumstances are exceedingly rare.
I'm less inclined to go mountaineering or ice climbing, to give a more realistic example, partly because of the risk, and quality time at home (both with family and alone) is a pretty limited resource.
And I use the phrase "go to battle" almost as metaphorically as possible, in the sense of my willingness to be in conflict with people over right and wrong, but I think that's a good point about physical safety and quality time.
Our evolution is complex, I find it fascinating that you can often dig up research with regards to this topic.
I'm on HRT due to past medical issues that drastically reduced my T levels. I remember what it was like to have my T really low, Now that I'm on T, and probably about normal or higher than average for my age, I can't say its changed drastically my attitude towards my children, how gentle I am towards them and much less increased my willingness or proclivity to leave my family or my wife and seek another partner. If anything its made me more protective and I've had more a sense of duty towards my family, to protect them and be the first line of defense against whatever threats minor and major exist. The worst of it has been a shortness of temper but I keep it in check, its basically like being 20 again and being older and wiser, I can channel it into positive action.
I wonder if he studied fathers who are physically active and do things like weight lifting or MMA, that naturally elevate T levels would agree that the line drawn between animals with higher T and humans are being overly correlated.
I remember that in the first days after my kid was born, the thought that I would defend that child to the bitter end against any attacker suddenly seemed completely natural, even trivial. It was quite strange and included a sudden extreme awareness of (and aggressive feelings against) animals which came to close. This included dogs. The feelings were overwhelmingly archaic. I talked to my wife about this, she experienced the same. I now understand the aggressiveness of animals who protect their offspring. I felt it myself.
There seems to be some research regarding this: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/147470491666228...
Now that I'm a father I'm much more wary of it because I know just what it means.
Some time ago a friend of mine from high school asked me how it feels to have a child and what do I feel for them - my answer was: "do you remember the time when you most powerfully fell in love to someone? Multiply that then by 100 and you'll get the answer" :)
This is my very most fav life quote I've ever came up with :)
It came out of nowhere and it was a chilling and somewhat unnerving feeling. I never felt that for anyone. But the conviction is there, almost like a peaceful resignation: if there is no other solution and that is the only possible alternative then so be it.
Crazy.
I'm sorry if that comes out as offensive, but this strikes me as something a virus or a parasite would also do, hijacking the host brain.
How exposure to parasites encourages promiscuity has been studied: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4013694/
Obviously, children may not be parasites, but the "It came out of nowhere and it was a chilling and somewhat unnerving feeling" part is troubling.
all babies are born premature because we evolved quickly and the human female's pelvic bones didnt grow as wide and as quickly as the baby's head to come through the birth canal. even after birth, the human baby needs the mother/father for a much longer time for survival.
progestrone, semen, testosterone, pregnancy etc hijacks not just the blood stream, hormones but also the brain because the fetus basically converts the mother's body into a fortress and a machine to keep itself alive. after birth, the immature baby/fetus also hijacks the father's brain and instincts.
it's best to remember that all biological organisms are mere vehicles for DNA and it's survival instinct. this isnt just for humans. my favourites are insects. at the farm..watch the praying mantis and the tarantula wasp and the drone bees play out their lives changes your perspective on life forever.
I thought of this connection because of the philosopher Daniel Dennett's writing about the Sphex wasp.
The Sphex wasp behaviour is common to most wasps. They are fierce mothers. I have seen it first hand with tarantula wasps in my farm where the female wasp will paralyze tarantula with a neurotoxin. Then she lays the eggs in the still alive tarantula’s belly. It’s insides liquify and after the baby wasps come along, they are nourished by the fortifying soup of the ..wait for it..still-living tarantula’s innards.
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150109-the-wasp-that-scares...
A more dramatic telling here on video: https://www.newsweek.com/horrifying-video-shows-giant-wasp-p...
Having said that, symbiosis only occurs with two distinctly different species.
With pregnancy and the human fetus, it’s is a kind of quasi-parasitic relationship because the host survives the parasite. Even though it’s changed. (Pregnancy changes body chemistry and functionally not just physical change)
So Harry has super special invincibility from The Killing Curse because Lily sacrifices herself for him. This is described as "Ancient, Long Forgotten Magic"
Wouldn't literally any parent do this?
Why aren't they're dozens of boys/girls who lived?
(Assuming I haven't mixed up canonical Harry Potter with Methods of Rationality.)
I try not to, but I know it's in there.
The previous, relatively selfish person you used to be, almost immediately upon first seeing them, now only exists to protect this vulnerable life that's completely dependent on you.
And then when they wanted to take one or the other away for exams, and I wouldn't leave them alone for a second. No fucking way. Yeah no, you're not taking them away to the nursery, I'll watch and console my girls while my wife gets some sleep.
I know it'll seem strange but there's probably only 2 people in the world I'd leave my girls alone at home with, even though they're 4 now. And none of them are our parents. Some friendly neighbors for acute emergencies, maybe, but the list is short.
And boy, having twins is a sure way to get attention, especially from nosy old people, that will put their face so close to the kids' or will remove the fucking stroller covers to see the baby's face (WTF!) and be angry when you say 'please don't'... I was humouring the old ladies, but my wife was dragon-like.
> From the 18, the first seven NASA astronauts were chosen,[8] each a "superb physical specimen" with an IQ above 130, and the ability to function well both as part of a team and solo.[6] Grissom, Cooper, and Slayton were Air Force pilots; Shepard, Carpenter, and Schirra were Navy pilots, and Glenn was a Marine Corps pilot.
> Because they wore civilian clothes, the audience did not see them as military test pilots but "mature, middle-class Americans, average in height and visage, family men all," ready for single combat versus worldwide Communism. To the astronauts' surprise, the reporters asked about their personal lives instead of war records or flight experience, or about the details of Mercury. After Glenn responded by speaking eloquently "on God, country, and family" the others followed his example, and the reporters "lustily applauded them."
The number of times I read about a famous historical figure on Wikipedia, and they mention almost as an afterthought that they had 6 kids...
But I didn't want to go off on a big tangent about the "masculine ideal" although I agree completely that there is ret-conning and we could definitely use a rethink of how we expect men to act!
That's a known fact in the military since times immemorial.
Funny how often the “masculine ideal” gets ret-conned in ways that say more about the person making the argument than anything else. Achilles is hardly insensitive——the turning point of the Iliad is his mourning over the body of Patroclus.
Instead of being a brash, brave, showy warrior who just doesnt' care about the danger and only cares about valor, you become a diligent, careful, never-surrendering and deadly efficient warrior, because you care a bit less about valor, but badly need to win. You have some specific lives to protect.
Maximus is a bit of a strange choice there. Marcus Aurelius of Meditations fame, is the titular grandfather figure in the film (right at the start). Meditations has a lot in it about child rearing and Marcus was something of a devoted father to his many children (for Roman men in those days). All that said, his son, Commodus, the first emperor to have the title passed down to him from his own father, was a uniquely terrible person. As seen in the film, he was just a 'very bad guy', but in reality he was much worse than is portrayed.
In essence, no matter the effort you put into your kid, they are still themselves
I don't think that's right? Titus[0] succeeded Vespasian in 79 AD, father to son. Both were good rulers BTW, but Titus was succeeded by Domitian (younger brother) who was a disaster and assassinated for it.
I meant to use the old saying of 'born in the purple', in that Commodus was the first emperor born and raised to be one. But I tried to use a simpler way of speaking and was, of course, wrong about it. Thank you.
I've described it as emasculating in the past, but this thread has changed my mind to think about it as more being in control and ready - a man with a purpose.
Thanks all for discussing.
I experienced this first hand. The newborn phase was really hard for me. I’m glad to know the reason for this, as I’ve always only ever understood it in a handwavy “male postpartum depression” sort of way
It could also be generalized anxiety. Mine would take uniquely weird forms, including awakening from a dead sleep convinced my son was buried/lost somewhere in the house. I'm convinced that the biological impulse to care/provide for babies is at the firmware-level of our impulses, and, as such, must be something that is acclimated to, rather than controlled by executive function.
We have barriers to keep her on top floor. They have to be sturdy.
Moment we can get kid to pee she is instantly fully awake, confused as to how she got there and goes back to bed for the night.
We’ve leaned to sleep lightly. The moment we hear her first stirrings we swoop in and stick her on toilet.
Crazy times
Our kid had night terrors for about a year. Just about the time the random worrying stopped happening we started getting woken up to blood-curdling screams we couldn't really do anything about.
Second one went 5 years of them. Almost nightly. Gradually Shifted to sleepwalking instead. Less dramatic, but more dangerous.
Either way exact moment she pee’d it was over.
babies are a group effort. women need their tribe. its an old fashioned way of thinking, but i am only speaking from my lived experiences. YMMV etc. this was also a way for young girls to become familiar with babies and understand pregnancy. once you have seen a live birth and distended nipples and the bloody river of afterbirth, women have a very realistic notion of what childbirth means...its like acclimitizing before entering the death zone while climbing mt.everest. parenthood requires proper introduction before one can jump into it. exposure to other parents..usually family is better for women because one way or another, we are all going to end up with the same blooms and warts as our grandmothers anyways. might as well understand the terrain before entering it. #female perspective.
as far as men are concerned..all i can say is make sure you have a way to earn and support your child. because babies are expensive. how do you prove that you are worthy of being a father? by being a provider, of course. one can always hire a night nanny. but you still need the means to support a child.
Take solace in the fact that kids cry over ridiculous stuff. For 20 minutes. Because, for example, you peeled their orange for them.
Nevermind that if they play on the street - a perfectly normal activity before cars - a driver will kill them :-(
I believe social and cultural norms changed over last century at least in West and this trend is mimicked by so called "developing countries" making parents isolated, tired and frustrated; add technological burden for kids not spending their developing time running around exploring world but be hooked to single pair or worst single adult because of all the danger increases amount of stress average parent has to cope with.. add to this how unnecessary stressful in some aspects modern became.
1.5 year old daughter wanted to eat the piece of pasta on the upper right corner of the plate last week. Couldn't manage to get it on the spoon. I helped her, but picked the (equivalent) piece of pasta next to it. The combination of frustration and anger over having to eat the wrong piece of pasta because she wasn't capable to get the right one on the spoon was too much for her. Of course a "dis-un dis-un dis-un dis-un DIS-UN DIS-UN D I S - U N!!!!!" meltdown followed.
Not saying this makes it any less frustrating when you need to get them fed, bathe them, brush their teeth, read them a book, and put them to sleep by 7:30 but it's already 7:25 and they're losing their shit over a noodle
Some days, by the time baby is asleep my nerves are just utterly shot by trying to concentrate around the crying.
I gave in and still put our 4 and 6 year olds to sleep in our big family bed, then teleport them later. After being a bit annoyed in the beginning, I've changed my mind by now. Bringing them to bed is honestly the best thing ever.
Babies are not copies, they react in various ways.
As some stranger on the internet said:
"After I had my first kid, I thought I was God's gift to parenting. A few years later I had a second kid and he cured me of such misconceived notions." :-D
My wife asked him how he raised such helpful kids and he said: bribery. If they behaved well and helped with things they would be getting a video game of their choice.
That night it took my daughter less than 15 minutes to stop screaming, and then everyone in the house slept for 6 hours straight.
In less than a week she was smiling when we put her down for the night.
I hope it works out that well for you.
You really need to stretch definitions to absurd to get near to deception too. They cry cause discomfort and really have no idea how you will react or what you will think f about that.
Babies are dumb and simple biological mechanisms from this point of view.
Crying is a baby's only tool, and babies are certainly allowed to feel emotions like boredom, disgust, annoyance, cold, as well as physical pain. You're also allowed to ignore your bored or upset child. But don't call it manipulation when the kid is being absolutely aboveboard and straightforward. Viewing it as 'manipulation' actually increases the likelihood, in my view, that you'll raise a duplicitous child, because from babyhood on the kid'll be taught that saying directly what you want is frowned upon.
As for sleep training, mentioned by a sibling commenter, our reactions to a baby's cries are definitely directly related to kid's bedtime patterns, and I would advocate for a middle road: there's no need to be rigid about a philosophy. With our kid, we'd wait five minutes for crying to stop. Any kid and any adult can wait out five minutes when it's just bedtime, not a question of physical distress. If the kid was still crying after five minutes, check in; if the kid is asleep, win! The kid knows they're not being abandoned for all eternity; you know you don't have to listen to this (*& forever; and we were lucky that it never took us more than 15 minutes (two checkins) before kid fell asleep. Children are different; YMMV.
So many people led me to believe that I would fall in love with my kid the instant I first laid eyes on her, and it simply wasn't the case. I love her so much now, but it definitely wasn't the immediate flip of a switch that some may believe
What's interesting though is that for me, having spent time with a baby seems to have changed some wirings retroactively. Just saw a toddler yesterday doing random things and having so much fun in the puddles, it was reeeeally cute. Good memories.
What nobody tells you though is that annoyingness and cuteness go hand in hand. As soon as they stop being annoying, they also stop being cute. It's hard to enjoy much of that cuteness because life's generally hard, loud and exhausting with a toddler. But as soon as it starts getting better, you also realize how much you miss that will never come back.
As Paul Graham said so wisely: There are only 52 weekends you will ever have with your three year old. Life is short, use it. Or at the very least, try to :)
I'm confused. Shouldn't it be 156?
It's difficult for me to overstate the emotional impact at the moment of the birth of my kid. It was intense and powerful. I've never felt anything like it, before or since. There was definitely something there.
But the bond didn't come for me until I could actually interact with this other human being. Offering a bottle and hearing a coo in response didn't really do it. Playing peekaboo was sort of the beginning for me, I guess.
I could definitely see someone conflating or confusing the two experiences.
There are plenty of things I miss about the south, but unsolicited parenting advice is one of them. Very much a "you're not really an adult" vibes
In addition you are very sleep deprived.
I know someone who said "I love him, but I don't like him" in relation to their new born.
It can take a while to come to terms and bond properly. You don't get anything back at the start. Once they start smiling, laughing, etc, it becomes even more magical.
My wife had serious complications after birth, so she basically wasn't there for the first 4 months. We had help during work hours, but all the rest of the care fell on me. I woke up 4 times a night to feed our kid, took him with me almost everywhere (in one of these https://media.s-bol.com/RoDEQRlMPRYY/386x840.jpg ), sat with him when he couldn't sleep, etc.
We bonded hard. My wife reported similar feelings like those described in the other comments. It took her a few years to catch up.
I have experienced this exactly twice in my life on separate occasions: My child entered a physically and immediately dangerous situation. As soon as I saw their peril, my mind went into a kind of flow state. I didn't take time to weigh options, or consider any type of danger to myself, I simply reacted and before I could consider what was happening, I'd removed my kids from the peril. Later, in one case, I noticed I had bruises from my action. In the other, I received a call from the school principal.
Likewise, my father saved my brother and I from drowning, and I believe he had the same 'rescue response'. As soon as he saw what was happening, he dived in from the pier and swam the 30 feet to retrieve us, only to realize that once he had us, he had no idea what to do next. Meanwhile, my aunt had calmly climbed into a nearby canoe and rowed out to assist.
I don't claim this is strictly a father's behavior, or strictly a male behavior, but personally, I haven't had this identical reaction in the few times I've seen other peoples' kids in similar urgent peril. I have taken other action, such as alerting bystanders, but not immediately put myself into danger. I contemplated options first.
Then there's the hangover afterward :)
My two year old son ended up breaking his leg stepping off a short stool a couple years ago. My wife thought nothing of his crying but after ten minutes or so she called me while I was upstairs working. I immediately came down and sensed unordinary danger, triaged his leg and concluded it was a broken bone in about 20 seconds, and was off to the ER a minute later (he's fine!). But there is something that just kicks in and says "SOLVE THIS NOW".
So I suspect that this is just adrenaline? It felt just like what you've described here.
I’ve had two major life in peril crisis with my wife.
First was about 3.5 years ago and started with her sister calling to say they just had a serious car accident which ultimately resulted in my wife being in intensive care for over a week.
The other was in June this year when my wife and I discovered our baby was arriving 10 weeks early.
Gratefully, in both cases everything turned out fine in the end.
But both experiences were very surreal in that in the moment I was calm and just focussed on doing whatever needed to be done.
For the car accident it was only the next morning that it really hit me emotionally.
And for the premature birth, it was only several hours later once everything seemed okay did my wife and I finally take bearings on how we were feeling.
And on the subject of becoming a father. My daughter spent 8 weeks in the hospital but only on the day we bought her home did I finally have the realisation that she is utterly and completely reliant on me and my wife. That was the moment that something changed in me. It was possibly also delayed as the pandemic caused hospital to severely limit visiting time for dads.
The first time you go to sleep is crazy too, "what if something happens while I'm asleep!"
But it's not just men. When I was very young, before I could swim, I fell into a pool and my grandmother dove in and saved me. She was like a bolt of lightening. I don't have many memories of being young. But I sure do remember that one.
0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6__QYkV_qs <- but this one isn't very serious
Unfortunately, much of society fails to recognize that we need
compatible partners who love each other and will raise others'
kids. It is a shame because it is truly important.
It's always stuck with me for reasons that I'm sure you can relate to.
Being a dad has led me to consider it carefully. I've concluded that, since humans are terrible at long-term planning, deferment of benefit, and putting the benefit of the group ahead of personal gain. So Darwin doesn't rely on any of that, or any decision-making at all. Parenting a baby/small child pushes a lot of major buttons in humans. Hard. Like no drug ever. It is its own reward, which is good; children aren't known for their gratefulness.
I'm not sure if I changed, or it's simply easier for me now they're a bit older, but over time I had merged into this parenting role really well. My kids are both happy and well balanced, other kids and adults both like them and they're doing really well at school.
Single parenthood is even harder, it sounds that you have done good job with them.
Just that the a lot of those frustrating and isolating aspects are not that you are less made or less capable for it, it is shared frustration and depression. Tho, advantage of being mom is that you can find other mom to complain to. I agree it is harder for men who are less likely to be in that position.
Hormonal things are more after birth. Moms can also get "touched out" when you don't want touch anymore. Some of cuddling is really done because you know it is good for kids.
I don't want to be the one who will say your experience of being uncomfortable more does not exists. It is way more ok for women to touch other women them males touching other males. These aspects are much different between genders.
Imo, a lot of women specific socialization is really about teaching women how to break isolation etc. It is the thing I realized only after I had kids. A lot of stereotypes were actually adaptation.
Maybe it's the social structures that aren't wired for men to do it, rather than the biological ones. What made you feel like the difference was biological rather than due to external society?
The second is that when my youngest was 6 months old I felt nothing for him. I saw a psychologist about this and they said it was really normal for dads to not feel connected to second+ kids until the kids are past a year.
Oh and one side note: the single most important quality of life change that my wife and I made was to get our kids to go to bed early. We now have them all in bed by 7:30 PM so the rest of the evening we have to ourselves. This takes discipline on our part especially after a long day at work but the kids are much happier with more sleep (even though it can sometimes be a battle to get them to stay in bed).
Overtime you will be surprised at how much progress you can make. Try and enjoy the little things in life. Since I'm in medicine, most of my life has been a whirlwind of activity: having kids has forced me to slow down and appreciate life in a new way. One small example, is that the highlight of my week is seeing my kids super excited for the homemade pancakes I make on Saturdays. It gives mom a break :)
Being a father gets better with time and I will say that parenting is the most important and rewarding undertaking of my life, even more so than programming or graduating medical school. Good luck and remember you are not alone there are literally millions of other fathers out there with similar struggles!
The way to overcome it is to sort of just plod on. They grow out of the potato stage, and start becoming people you can interact with, play with, talk with. For the first few years, being a good dad largely consists of keeping your kid alive!
I basically just told myself that it would get better, and stage by stage it did. Mine's nearly five now, and there are still a lot of challenges, but it's nowhere as difficult as it was for the first few years. Being a good dad is actually harder in some ways now now, because it requires more mental and emotional commitment, vs. just being able to deal with sleep deprivation and isolation, but also easier in a lot of ways because they're a person you can do things with.
The first one, picture perfect. I could feel my body "go to battle" there was this sense of pride and drive. I felt like I was fulfilling a part of my life that was absolutely necessary.
The second one, we failed. Pre-mature by 3 weeks. Bacterial meningitis within 4 days of her being home. She's here with us now but she suffers from global sensory deficits, CP and retardation. It was the polar opposite of my first experience. Pure torture.
The biology of fatherhood is a powerful one, it can give - just as much as it can take. For anyone who's a father out there, without a connection to their child, especially a healthy one. You're missing out. For any fathers out there who have had to endure failure, you are not alone and those children need love too.
This was one of the hardest times for me as a parent, and it was helpful to know that I wasn't alone. We were given a DVD about this from our public health nurse.
Now I have a teenager, and oh boy, it's a whole new set of problems.
There is a clear link in emotional bonding and hormonal changes of mothers associated with pregnancy and labour. At face value it sounds nice that fathers also experience hormonal changes due to bonding with their children.
However, I couldn't find any reference to the confounding of fathers just experiencing a T drop _caused_ by sleep deprivation?
What I question is if this hormonal change (T drop) in males is not just due to sleep deprivation, rather than some unknown/unclear male bonding mechanism.
[0] https://www.nct.org.uk/labour-birth/your-guide-labour/hormon...
- less sleep which causes elevated levels of stress which pushes you to eat unhealthy food more, combined with your Body's natural slowdown of digestive system as one ages (compounded by less sleep) will definitely hit Dad's biology quiet a lot for at least the first 3 years of a Child's life.
- Icing on the cake is the hit it takes on Dad's IT career (if Dad is in IT) as he is unable to dedicate meaningful number of after-hours for his skill upgrading.
- Modern Society (at least in Toronto Canada) places unreasonable expectations on Dads to partake in expensive/time-sink activities with their kids such as organized sports and other extracurricular activities as opposed to having kids in neighborhood naturally play at each other's house / local park. This to me is a problem because I am naturally inclined to work and focus on making money/getting promotion rather than extending my family time.
- Raising a Child, especially in a society that is comprised of nuclear family structure and where Grandparents (Wife's Parents) are not geographically near causes immense pressure on both Parents. No wonder, people, especially immigrants in Toronto Canada, rarely have more than 1-2 kids...
A dangerous thing that can happen is when you over-identify with your kids. Like being the overbearing sports-parent that pushes their kid to succeed because you see it as an extension of your success. I think every parent runs into this to some degree. I have to remind myself they are different people with their own wants, needs, values, and criteria for what "success" means to them. Not an extension of myself.
Yet it's hard to balance avoiding over-identifying with the "I want to keep you out of obvious danger". Like "Don't go 200K in debt for a poor college education" or things like drug and alcohol usage at too young an age. The downside risks for some of these things are huge.
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
Which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
But seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
Anxiety is crippling me to the point of rupture.
Other than that, I strongly believe in paying well for good childcare and babysitting so you can take breaks.
I also believe in sharing your passions with your kids, and focusing on quality time rather than quantity or things that don't interest either of you. This can be surprising. My kids love camping, which surprised me. I love camping - my wife doesn't. My kids are meh on coding, they do it, but it doesn't grab them like it grabs me...
Focus your career choices carefully as your time on them is limited. I have found having kids, due to time crunch, has caused me to really focus more on what I really care about from work. Don't let others take advantage of you to do BS work, focus on what you want to do on a day-to-day basis that's fulfilling for you if you're able. I think sometimes parents fall into the trap of only focusing on $$ when really it's a good idea to focus on how much value you yourself are getting out of your more limited time investment
* A dose of magnesium glycinate in the morning and before bed
* A dose of black seed oil in the morning and at night
If you did a hair mineral analysis test, I assure you, you would most likely be magnesium deficient. The body needs magnesium in order to deal with stress. Anxiety is stress.
The deficiency wreaks havoc on the nervous system. Take a HMAT from Analytical Research Labs if you want to be 100%. You'll have to find a practitioner.
I've done years of therapy. But getting my basic nutrients in order, made an immediate impact and has had a much bigger difference in treating my anxiety.
Also don't forget about getting enough sleep every night.
I strongly encourage you to talk to a therapist or counselor of some sort - even after just a few chats they can arm you with some really great tools.
For managing the anxiety of life generally and parenting specifically, religion has been very helpful for me. If you're not into that, maybe find something that strengthens the big picture & long term view of things.
I'm tying (unsuccessfully) to get sleep, and I'll try magnesium supplements too. I already spoke about this but never got solutions, and at this point it feels almost even worse every time.
Which, for many people, ends up being participating in the “meritocracy tournament” to secure cash flow. But I let them know what the rules and parameters of the game are, and possible consequences of various actions. After that, it’s up to them to figure out their goals.
You don’t need straight As and 3 extracurriculars to earn money, but you also can’t explore your interests all day and follow your passion to secure your family’s future.
I would try to suss out what kind of life they want. If they want to jet set and have fancy things, they need to do the things that get them high pay. If they’re okay clocking in and out and going home without stress and maximizing enjoyment in 20s, maybe do a trade or something. If they don’t care about having roommates for the rest of their life and what kind of school district their kids are in, then they can study art or do whatever they feel like.
They should also be made aware that their potential mates will be affected by their lifestyle choices as well.
I guess your anxiety could be based on the location where your living? I believe my daughter will be able to find plenty of great opportunities in her life and I'll be able to give her a very nice start compared to most people around where I live (Thailand).
I have to admit I am also not worried for things like covid and climate change, so if these things worry you a lot, I guess that might be part of your anxiety.
Would you care to explain why?
I'm not sure if my explanation would be fruitful here. I realise most people on HackerNews likely disagree with me on these issues. I am not here to convince people of my views on these issues. I respect anyones opinions on these matters.
But since you asked, in short:
- I really don't believe COVID-19 is as dangerous as is projected in the media
- I believe the human influence on climate change is much less than what most people tend to believe
My views are based on my own research on these issues.
If you'd asked me what issues I'm worried about, it's issues like pollution in the general sense (e.g. like plastics in the sea) or human population growth.
I disagree with this with a resentment towards someone saying its a research based view. Putting that aside, however, why would believing climate change isn't human influenced would make things more palatable? In the vaguest sense, that sounds to me like it would be worse, because then we can't possibly do anything to halt it.
Well, it's obviously not very dangerous, on a medium or long term. The Black Plague had a 40% mortality rate, SARS about 20%, etc. A virus with a 1-2% mortality rate won't bring society down, obviously.
The media machine needs nourishment and they tend to exaggerate things.
However Covid-19 is still a big deal. If it runs its course unchecked ~50-80 million of people could die. That's a lot of pain and suffering, the likes of which the world hasn't had in at least 60 years.
> - I believe the human influence on climate change is much less than what most people tend to believe
This, I don't think anyone can justify. Maybe the climate warming estimates are overblown, ok, but human influence is undeniable and worst of all, we have no control over it and little visibility. It's like physics and closed systems, humanity is an open system and we're leaking pollution everywhere. Any way you cut it, that can't be good or sustainable. And there are so many of us that we definitely have an impact on the world. For example the Great Pacific Garbage Patch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch). And these things will only become worse as we will have 3x - 4x as many people living in industrialized countries (4 billion people or more).
My parents lived through the most intense portions of the Cold War. The world could have ended at any moment. That is much more anxiety producing than climate change. And yet they made it through ok.
Honestly, a big concern is how my daughter will deal with things like social media. Young girls are self harming at unheard of rates. Depression and anxiety are through the roof. I don't know how to deal with this.
The worst consequences of climate change won't fall on Middle Class Americans, it'll fall on people who cannot afford to move, rely on subsistence farming, etc. Maybe Miami and New Orleans don't exist in 2100. But cities like Chicago were founded and became large cities in under 80 years.
And I'm pretty sure cities like Miami will just slowly recede inward rather than pack it all up.
1. How to handle success
2. Dealing with failures
I'm worried that the planet will be inhospitable to human life, and that my kid will have to scramble for rat corpses in the shadows of collapsed skyscrapers.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S05315...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001457931...
Since I'm guessing there will be a bunch of parents in this thread, let me make a humble book recommendation:
Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn
The Myth of the Spoiled Child by Alfie Kohn
Kohn is an education researcher who's kind of an iconoclast. His research has focused heavily on what _helps_ children gain the knowledge, academic wherewithal, and social-emotional skills to be successful in life. His results have been pretty surprising: Homework doesn't do much for children. "Time outs" are harmful. And the list goes on.
I'm simultaneously reading Unconditional Parenting and The Myth of the Spoiled Child, which I'd recommend. The latter looks at American accepted wisdom about children (every generation thinks that their kids are dumber, lazier, and more mollycoddled than _they_ were) and makes some pretty interesting juxtapositions between what we say we want for our kids and how we treat them.
0 - https://fpg.unc.edu/sites/fpg.unc.edu/files/resources/snapsh... 1 - https://www.researchgate.net/profile/C_Lewis2/publication/22...
Eh. I've seen other parents be just as shitty as anyone else. I don't think parenthood is an empathy-panacea.
How do we forget every time there are these conversations that most abuses happen in families? How do we forget about the victims of parental harassment, shaming, disinterest and violence?
I don't know whether being a parent makes someone better or worse; but there are many parents who should have done something different that lazy Sunday afternoon.
Either way, it would be nice if people had to think about the care and feeding of others more often, so they might be less selfish after having seen how important a job it is to take care of another human with care and respect. Maybe even if people could take care of the elderly, it's a similar struggle to take care of a very old and enfeebled person.
Maybe. I was not ready to become a father early in life; I can't tell you if it would have taught me patience earlier, or would have made me resent the responsibility and poisoned my relationship with my kid.
And overall, I think that prescribing having a child to mature people faster fits into the same bucket as having a child to save a failing relationship.
> it would be nice if people had to think about the care and feeding of others more often
Perhaps we can get young people more dogs. Or a fish.
But I might just be paranoid or an idiot unsure if he will be a good father or not. Men plan, the gods laugh.
Any Doctors out there? Does it explain the dad-bod?
It could have some problematic effects if given as an antidepressant.
Then the baby sleeps gets longer and you can have 6-8h of sleep.
New fathers: Hold tight, after 3-4 months it gets way easier.
I understand the attachment, but at some point you have to let go and life is full of risks (and interesting things).
Though I doubt my reasoning will assuage any parental fears :-)
Yeah how many teenagers do you parent? :)
On the downside, breast feeding ad libitum basically meant my wife's full time job was to breast feed, we went on a date after our kid was a few months old and we had to cut it short because she was sore and it was feeding time. She estimates she spent 40+ hours a week breastfeeding. She played a lot of video games with our daughter latched on, since it could be pretty boring.
Like any parents, we had a few "hell nights" when she was sick or teething, but in general human infants are significantly happier (and much quieter!) sleeping next to their mother, and unless a mother is either drunk or under the influence of some other substance, you're not going to crush your baby. I slept significantly more soundly and slept in a different bed. Putting your kid in a crib in a different room is a very weird, Victorian thing to do.
Best of luck to your friend! ;)
This is why almost half of US children are not raised under the same roof with their biological father.
Do you have any source on this? That's an interesting but shocking fact
I didn't expect to see similar proportions of children both living only with mother and only with father. In fact, 12 to 17 years of age is 44% only with father versus 36.6% only with mother. Not only do more teens live with their father only, but only 20% live with both parents?
That's not the correct conclusion, the percentages add up to 100% for both the single mother and single father parent cohort, but it doesn't say anything about kids who are living with both parents.
Also, regarding your friend's children... I know two adults who turned out to be very successful in life and in their careers despite having fathers that abandoned them at a young age.
But I think the majority of cases could be covered by these two things: (1) Choose the right person; don't expect that someone will magically change after the kids are born. (2) Don't let your partner feel like a fifth wheel, or rather like a mere money machine, after the kids are born.