Comment by mcntsh | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mcntsh | Hacker News Reader

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As an American who now lives in Germany, it does make me think how the U.S works at all without this "registration". There are times where you fill out government forms with your address, but there's no way to know for sure where someone is living at any given moment. As far as the "government" is concerned (which government? state, local, federal? AFAIK it's all pretty decentralised) I'm still living at the place I registered to vote from years ago.

I suppose it's cultural differences. There's a staunchly individualistic attitude in the US and the idea of a central government tracking its citizens is very unpopular. I get it, too. If you take a look at the "Anmeldung" process in Germany, where the government has a list of everyone and their race/religion/nationality, along with exactly where they live/which building/which floor/which side of the building, you can see how such a system could be dangerous if Germany were to ever shift from the liberal democracy it is today.

Yes I guess it's the cultural differences. But in reality, if the US government wants to find out where you live, they're going to find out :-)

Also, as another child comment said, filling out religion and gender is optional, and no form ever asks for race (at least in Germany and Switzerland I know that for sure).

On the other hand, having better data about citizens makes a lot of things more efficient and fair in government and politics. As I said, I think the US Census is a disaster and always leads to unfair outcomes for minorities and lower class people.

But I agree, it would be better if they woulnd't ask for religion at all.

They’re asking for your religion because it makes a difference in your taxes and days free of work

Days of free work you need to take up with your employer. They're asking for the church tax.

Heck, I remember it getting drilled into me in middle school that the Nazis were able to kill so many Jewish people because they had complete records of where everyone lived and their religious affiliation. When the time came, they knew what doors to knock on. It boggles my mind that this system still exists in modern Germany, of all places.

The American model is highly distributed and need-to-know. Many government forms ask for your current address, but it is not automatically shared with the police and there is no requirement to update it in a timely manner.

Many Americans are highly skeptical of the police, and for good reason. Expecting people to go to the police to register when moving would be a complete non-starter in most neighborhoods that I have lived.

America is even more extreme - there the state asks you for your political affiliation in many cases. That’s absolutely crazy to me.

Hmm I've never been asked this on any official form other than when I register to vote (so I can join a party), and that's optional.

Right... but why does the state want to know which party you're a member of? This doesn't get supervised by the state in other countries. It's usually a personal, private matter between you and the party.

Ah, right, sure that's a good point but I wouldn't say it's more "extreme" than other countries, seeing as it's a totally optional thing. I can vote in elections without being affiliated with a party. In Germany, for example you don't have the choice but to have your race/gender/religion/address on file with the central government.

Disclaimer: I'm not complaining about how it is in Germany/other countries in Europe. The trust in government is quite high here, and for a good reason :)

It's for two reasons:

First we have a system of primary elections, and in many jurisdictions your party registration status determines which primary you can vote in. You have to be registered Democrat to vote Democrat, registered Republican to vote Republican, etc. The local election board is the one who oversees to vote, so they need to know your party registration in order to make sure you get the right ballot and the right ballot information (which is sent by mail beforehand). In many jurisdictions you can also "decline to state" and then in a primary election you have to tell them each time which ballot you want.

Second, it's used in state redistricting. Having this information be public allows auditors to check if redistricting is resulting in gerrymandering.

But I feel like I can keep asking ‘why’. Why does the state have its nose in political party business? Why are they running party primaries? Seems like something that should be firewalled off from the state?

In other countries parties run their own candidate selections as private business and the state can’t meddle in it, so the state doesn’t have to ask what what your affiliation is.

This is somehow connected to the fact that US political parties are mostly not mass membership organisations.

Everywhere else in the world, if you strongly support a party, you join it, and pay a membership fee, and the party adds you to a register. Then, you can take part in party activities, like internal elections.

In the US, you register as a supporter of a particular party with the state. Then, everyone registered can take part in (some) party activities, like primaries.

It's a weird system, and i don't know how it started, but because Americans don't realise it's weird, there isn't much written about it!

Race and religion are definitely not required (=optional for you to give) when you register for permanent residency in Germany. Source: I am a german who completed the form multiple times after moving.

AFAIK there's a direct connection between the church you are apart of and the government via Kirchensteuer.

As it relates to ethnicity, you're right. I can no longer edit my original comment though.

I think you can say “no religion” though and then not pay your tithing taxes, no? There’s no requirement that if you are Jewish you register as such (but then, your synagogue misses out on money).

Yes exactly, you can easily opt out from the church tax (of course, ideal it should have been opt in).

Hmm I've read stories of people getting in trouble for being members of a church and not paying their church tax.

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