We Are Built to Forget | Hacker News Reader

We Are Built to Forget

theparisreview.org

112 pointslongdefeat52 comments

About a decade or so ago, NPR produced and aired a segment on memory savants that was chilling in its implication. Apparently, there are a handful of notable savants who have an inability to forget. They remember everything that has ever happened to them, and in their own words, it's a heavy burden. Forgetting is not just necessary, it is essential.

> Lots of people know that marijuana makes us forget

I forget where I read about the original hypothesis behind this (Michael Pollan?), and I have no idea if it is still considered true, but it was once thought that the reason cannabis had evolved forgetful properties was because the plant needed to protect itself from being eaten with a chemical to make insects forget where the plant was located, so they couldn't go back to their hive and tell the others where to find it.

Hah! That's a very interesting evolutionary theory. Personal experience, however, shows a mixture for me. While I was forgetful under the influence, I was also able to rediscover (if that's the correct description even) some older memories that I thought I had forgotten about. It seems to me that it also has the ability to piece back together memories that have been fragmented, in hard disk terms.

I think we are still not sure if they are old memories or being rendered live.

They may reencode on recall but there is a thread that is stored from an old memory. But sure, a memory degrades from the original on recall and replaced with bits of false memories.

I have an interesting anecdote on forgetting. My grandmother developed Alzheimer at around 83 and she'd ask me something then 2 minutes later she'd forgotten she asked me and ask me again. However, at some point she seemed to be deep thinking and at some point started humming a song and as she hummed more she started singing clearly a song from her kindergarten. It was even emotional to her, she had tears in her eyes but there was joy as well. Sadly she descended into complete memory loss that year and soon wasn't able to recognize anyone.

So even if we temporarily forget, some things are buried deep in there only to emerge at a later age.

Sorry to hear that.

Same happens to me. I was addicted to m. for about 10 years. It was addiction because I couldn't stop and I had no friends. It was in the beginning of the addiction that I discovered some unpleasant old memory of situation from my childhood that I repelled. That situation was so unpleasant that it changed the way I was treated by peers. It happened when I was 10 or 11. I remembered it when I was 20-22 smoking pot and doing occasional amphetamine. Here I am 40, 12 years after breaking my addiction and now I now that my memory is weak. I forgot a lot of things and it is hard for me to focus. The technology does not help, recently I learnt that keeping my brain constantly under dopamine flow (browsing the internet for cool things to read) degrades my ability to focus. Etc Etc. Life sometimes get you to the places you really want to go back and start again...

I’m obliged to share here “Funes, the memorious”, a short story by Borges that illustrates the implications of a perfect memory:

https://mhgaray.wordpress.com/2006/07/22/funes-the-memorious...

One of my favorites of his stories.

This hypothesis doesn’t hold up since THC is only effective when it’s heated up. You’d have to ingest a much bigger amount of raw material to achieve a high that makes you forgetful.

Perhaps insect metabolism differs (frankly I doubt they can metabolize it neurologically like we do)? Regardless, thrips and spider aphids certainly love to eat my weed plants.

> I forget where I read about the original hypothesis behind this (Michael Pollan?), and I have no idea if it is still considered true, but it was once thought that the reason cannabis had evolved forgetful properties was because the plant needed to protect itself from being eaten with a chemical to make insects forget where the plant was located, so they couldn't go back to their hive and tell the others where to find it.

Pop science at its best!

Forgetting is an essential part in the evolution of an individual. We wouldn't be able evolve and transform without the ability to forget and 'overwrite' parts of ourselves.

> I forget where I read about the original hypothesis behind this (Michael Pollan?)

Perhaps in “The Botany of Desire”[1]. I might be misremembering, but I think I heard it (audiobook) there.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Botany_of_Desire

I had a wonderfully happy childhood, and I openly embrace forgetting. Sometimes I enjoy old pictures, or keeping a token object that reminds me of something, but there is a pureness and serenity to living your life without trying to hold on to anything.

It’s nice to see this modern realization of something well documented and prescribed in philosophy for 1600 years. In Arabic, the origin of the word “human” means “one who forgets”.

Forgets about what? Just what is important.

You sure about that origin? I checked and the origin of the word seems to come from the word for earth.

to be clear, I don't speak Arabic - I'm merely intrigued by etymology.

I think they are referring to "إنسان" or "Insaan" which has the root of nisyah which means "to forget".

My understanding is that this isn't the common word for person, which would be "شخص" or shakhs. However that also doesn't originate from the word for earth. What word are you referring too?

I'd love for an arabic speaker to chime in!

I think that your parent commenter looked up the etymology of the English word 'human', which comes from humus (earth).

I think they read the grandparent post as suggesting that the English word 'human' came from Arabic, rather than your (correct) inference that they meant the Arabic word for human.

It's from the name of the first human "Adam", which comes from the word for earth. And I thought that was the origin of the word that means human in Arabic.

But another poster said there are multiple words for human in Arabic, so now I'm not sure.

However 'insan' is the commonly used turkish word for human

Same with Hindi and a bunch of other South Asian languages.

That's just wrong.

The root of "human" إنسان (insaan) is ء ن س (ʾ-n-s)

The root of "forget" إنس (insa) is ن س ي (n-s-y)

Not the same root.

The word templates and roots are different, but the combination root1+template1 happens to look identical to root2+template2. (each arabic word is a 3-letter root + assigned into a large n-letter word template)

insa is the second-person masculine singular active imperative of نَسِيَ‎ (nasiya), equivalent to the command "forget!" in english, addressed to male.

I think I found the root of this rumor [3] (some religious mumbo jumbo):

"In Egyptian Arabic, the word 'insan' means 'human'. If we remove the 'n', the word becomes 'insa', which means 'to forget'. So you see, the word 'forget' is taken from the word 'human'. And since it was God who created our minds and hearts, He knew from the very beginning that we would quickly forget our history"

refs:

[1] human - https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%A5%D9%86%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%8...

[2] forget - https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D9%86%D8%B3%D9%8A

[3] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7942501-in-egyptian-arabic-...

Note: I corrected my comment - previously I spelled the second word incorrectly.

Could you please type the word for forget in Roman? I can't read Arabic but am intrigued.

Fantastic. Thank you so much for chiming in!

Arabic speaker here, just want to point out that there are multiple words for human in Arabic: "بن/بنت أدم" (son/daughter of Adam), "بشري" and also "إنسان".

You probably searched for the one related to Adam, and the parent's claim concerns the third one (I still couldn't verify the claim with a 30 second search, but it's plausible enough and the word does seem phonetically similar to the verb, which counts for something in Arabic).

I assume you are talking about "aadmi"?

This is the adjective version of "بني أدم", what you mean when you say "human civilization". The actual "noun" is "Banii Adam".

I just came here to type this :D

That is why I have some scratch paper and a good quality pen near my work desk at all times. I find it extremely calming in a zen like way to write things I need to do down as I come up with them.

While paper has a ton of issues in terms of search and longevity (e.g it ends up crumpled in my back pocket) it is the lowest friction for getting things out of my head.

I got tired of forgetting so many things, so I started keeping a diary.

So far have not yet gone back and read it though, so I don't know if it's actually going to turn out to be valuable.

It will be interesting if you have been writing it for a long time.

My recall used to be perfect but has faded drastically with age. However, if I write something down I usually retain it and never have to refer to the note itself.

What a great article and comments :) Since I was a kid I would "replay" events. In grade school I could (and would) recite the Star Wars movies on the playground. I was a freak.

At 35 I haven't lost it yet but for at least 50% of my life have been a HEAVY marijuana user because it helps dull this problem.

School was easy but dreaming is a nightmare. Again, drugs are the the only thing that helps. I hate having such vivid dreams and remembering all the awful details. I remember dreams from decades ago like I had them last night. It's horrible mostly, again, marijuana was a God send.

Killing my memory with drugs and alcohol isn't great but I've found it better than the alternative and often discuss with my therapist how jealous I am of people that waltz through life confidently forgetting all their screw up and mistakes.

I though your reply was very nice, that's why I'm telling you this. It seems pretty much all of your comments are marked as DEAD so I think you might have fell in some kind of spam filter. Probably because most of your replies are short? Regardless, you don't seem unhinged or a troll, looking through your history, so you deserve to know this.

I doubt gp is shadow banned because their comments are short. It looks like many of their comments are abusive. Anyway, the system is working as intended as worthwhile comments can be rescued by the community like this one has.

Ha! I don’t think you’re a freak. We used to recite Star Wars lines to each other as a challenge. The other person had to say the next line. We could also recite all three films from start to finish.

I had to train myself to care less about my mistakes and also to let myself forget. I get that replaying in your head over and over. I still remember an embarrassing moment from the fifth grade, but perspective has taken the sting out of it.

I prefer my use of MindMaps, and remembering the index

I recommend numbering the pages and reserving the first two or three pages for a table of contents for significant entries.

> not yet gone back and read it though

I feel the same way with photos I take on my phone! More time taking than consuming.

I kept a diary for 25 years. Just the act of writing things down helps you remember more about your life, even if you don't read it again.

It's amazing being able to see exactly what I was doing and thinking about in, say, 1997 or 2003, say, where without it I wouldn't have much idea. But even more important maybe, was reading through recent weeks' entries and frequently becoming aware of patterns I otherwise wouldn't. Like when you complain about something into your diary, then notice you said or felt almost the same thing every week for months, when you had no recollection of that, it really changes your behaviour! You become more informed about the context of today's thoughts and feelings.

Having my grandfather's diary entries from 1963 through 1995 sure helped jog his memory as we work on his memoirs.

If, God forbid, he were to pass, those journals would remain, echoing some of his memories, experiences, feelings, and conclusions.

I think about that when I'm feeling down on journalling that day.

Beautiful, but sad, stories.

But there is another dimension this fails to mention for me: People who suffer from long-term traumatic events (like an abusive childhood, ...) release stress chemicals in their brains which alters the structure and makes remembering painful. Which is why people with "tough" childhoods tend to not remember as much as people with "normal" childhoods.

> My baby cried, a call I hear still like an echo from a distant mountain.

This article is superficially about forgetting but that single stunning line summarizes the persistence of memory.

My mind is very good at remembering but it's not particularly quick on the uptake. It may take minutes, hours or days but eventually there will be a "ka-ching" sound and a card will appear in the slot with the desired answer. I've learned to relax and let it do its work...

I go through the same process, for me the worst offender is names. Faces I’ve got down, but the connection to a name will always be fuzzy. I can’t recall names for the life of me on the spot, but two days later out of nowhere it’ll come to me. Doesn’t particularly help during conversations, but I’m patient with myself.

I realized in the last year or two that I was never really bad with names, I just didn’t give myself the chance to be good with them. For someone I’ve just met, it takes a little effort to use their name at least once or twice soon after I learn it, and it’s much more likely to stick.

I’m also much stricter with going through the slight awkwardness if I didn’t catch the name first time (even asking to spell it out to be 100% sure). Then afterwards, I’ll write down the name in Notes with something memorable about the person, and where I met them. 99% of the time, I never look at this again. Just like that, name remembered.

Then, I’ll manage not to use a person’s name next time I see them, even when I know it. Oops.

For me the first thing I forget (or never remember) about a person is name

More precisely it's the connection from "person" to "name".

i.e. If given a name I might be able to fetch the "person" memory but the other way around would be much more difficult.

Don't ask why I don't know :D

I also have a problem with names. I remember people by face and body posture pretty well but names I will forget quickly. I also don’t notice eye color which annoys my girlfriend.

I find that even after learning someone's name I can only remember it if I am regularly using it. For example, I'll work with someone and use their name every day for months but then after a few months of not working with them I can't remember their name.

This makes it very difficult in organizations that are setup where you directly work with a small number of people but also socialize less regularly with a larger group. For example, at church I can remember the names of people in my Bible study but not people in the larger congregation. At work I can remember the names of people on my team but struggle with the names of people on any of the teams that we interact with.

This phenomenon is called “apohanam” in Sanskrit and is considered to be a blessing, because, as another commentator pointed out, remembering everything is an extreme burden, especially if you accept “past lives”.

This is a big reason why I don't like the idea of the "permaweb" and favor mutability as a foundational capability.

Secure-Scuttlebutt[1] is a nightmare to me.

[1]: as-is today. I think they are working on adding mutability

"It's a human superpower, forgetting. If you remembered how things felt, you'd have stopped having wars. And stopped having babies."

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