So is that depression? I have no idea, but I hate the feeling and I pray that once this pandemic is over, the symptoms will fade.
So is that depression? I have no idea, but I hate the feeling and I pray that once this pandemic is over, the symptoms will fade.
Yep, but the cause in your case is unknown. For example, it could be work burnout causing it. It could be not going outside that is causing it. It could be not socializing that is causing it. It could be your diet. It could be ...
If you can identify the cause you can find a solution. Unfortunately, the best most people have is a shotgun approach where they try a combination of solutions attempting to address every possible cause.
When in a depressed state it makes you want to lay down, to do less. It's exhausting and depending on how bad the depression is sleeping seems better. For the majority, doing the exact opposite of how you feel works to get out of that state, which isn't easy for many, so it helps to take it slow. Sometimes just walking around in a circle in your house for 15-20 minutes can sometimes be enough. This can be done without getting dressed or even thinking about it. It can be done while cooking food or going to the bathroom. It's only 15 minutes and for many that is enough exercise to start feeling not drained again.
For many today depression can be caused by doing too much instant gratification type activities in your free time, which can cause that feeling drained feeling. I find having a hobby can help a lot, because then you're not bored. I find getting a hobby can be hard. It can come from a need, like being aggravated with something and wanting to improve it, but it also comes as a side effect from socializing with people. People talking about what they've been up to, what they're passionate about, or even what they hate, can all plant seeds of inspiration that can eventually lead to a hobby. So for some the solution to this kind of depression is socializing.
And it goes on. This is why talking to a professional (preferably someone who specializes in CBT, but it's not required) can help. It typically only takes a few months of therapy to get out of most kinds of depression.
I would push back on the notion that there has to be a cause for depression. Maybe there is, but it can lead to the dangerous conclusion that it’s somehow one’s fault, when it’s actually a maladaptive behavioral state; a disease.
Fully agree with your advice to talk to a professional.
I see how that could be a concern. To address it, there can be causality without fault. Fault is a kind of blame. Blame is when you take out a timeline and put your finger down on an arbitrary part and say, "It's because of this." and fault is taking that arbitrary point and reducing the event down into actors by saying, "It's because of you everything went wrong."
Looking closely, fault provides no benefit. You can grow and improve by looking at causality. You can learn why someone did what they did and learn from that, which is far more beneficial than the overly reductionist fault. Fault as a default is a lazy way of thinking. Instead we can see the ignorance in ones decision, or the defensiveness in ones decision when they assume another was being harmful to them (eg arguing or retaliation), or we can see the short sighted selfishness in some rare situations (eg, narcissism). Fault is not necessary. It's a hindrance towards a higher resolution view and from that greater awareness comes greater learning capacity, a heightened wisdom, and possibly even heightened intelligence.
Hope is not a bad thing, unless you want to sit around and do nothing with your life and feel terrible. To be concerned with the impossible is a symptom and a cause of depression, called learned helplessness.
The solution in those cases is to not try to solve it, but instead to let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions. It's difficult because the emotional part of the brain does NOT have the ability to use language. It evolved hundreds of millions of years ago, and is the deepest part of our central nervous system, and absolutely necessary for our survival. It can not be shut off or ignored. And in the case of depression, it may or may not be "normal" - but it is doing it's job.
If you try to fight stress (which masquerades itself as problem-solving) it will create more stress. When you're okay in the present moment -- you've let go and accepted how you feel through recognizing the stress is temporary like a rain cloud; it will go away without doing anything -- you can passively and non-interactively observe what is going on, which is the beginning of learning. This learning then turns into answers or at first something to talk about with a therapist. Therapy can help quite a bit with this one. This process of passively observing in a relaxed state no matter how bad you feel, is called meditation, and it's what you're talking about, "let the 'emotional' part of the brain do it's natural function and simply process the emotions".
>And while you can do that if your depression has an obvious cause. . . there are tons of people who are depressed for no obvious reason - OR - there is no way to get out of the situation that's causing it.
That's not really true though. The high majority (88%) of people who go in for CBT therapy are cured from their depression in under 3 months, and of the majority who do not, the largest group is avoidant of psychological work. Yes, there is a small subset of incurable depression. The current theory is it has to do with ones gut biome, but those are estimated to be around 1% of people with depression, and for the majority of those people antidepressants do nothing. They have this constant stomach ache. However, those people can still get benefit by learning how to deal with the situation and live a happy and healthy life. Eg, changing diet can remove many of the symptoms. Calling it depression is even somewhat controversial, because of how different it is from all of the other kinds of depression.
People have yet to realize how far modern psychology has come, in part because most psychologists today practice an ancient form that barely, if at all, helps.
Memories and emotions are not "real" in that they are not the present moment, and being able to stay grounded in the present moment while having these thoughts can help. In metaphor, it's like pinching yourself while dreaming.
What imo helps the most is realizing everything is impermanent / temporary. If you have a particularly gruesome emotion you can know you don't have to do anything, because it will go away on its own, like a rain cloud, in due time. So you can relax even while freaking out.
what helps me get through the day is exactly this. we're just a sack of liquid chemical that constantly chances its structure. the feeling I experience within a time span of 30 minutes alone between waking up and having my first coffee, or in between forcing myself to put on my running gear and returning from a run, are changing everything. and if things can change in only a few minutes, how I perceive the world over a longer time can too.
some of this comes naturally with age when hormones change. it does have upsides when not everything and everyone is able to spoil my day.
these days I make sure I do not add things into my life as the first approach but to see what I can subtract in order to troubleshot my body and feelings. only after I can't take anything away any more do I see what I might need (and where others earn money on me and are motivated to push me into that direction. some examples that help me personally battle decades of depression:
- eat only half the amount or try intermittent fasting for a month
- cut the booze or weed (one day a week max less if I can)
- take daily walks/runs of at least 30 mins.
- start the morning with a cold shower (prepares me mentally that my day might not be smooth and certainly won't start comfortable)
- leave your phone at home when going out and see how that makes you feel. if you think this is nuts or makes you uncomfortable think about why the lack of an electronic device makes you feel this way.
- always shower right after returning from work (or finishing work). matter of habit for me since I didn't always have an office job. it allows me to unwind and "wash away" all the work stuff. reminds me that I am now at home and prep myself to have different thoughts (if you prefer a bath that's cool but in my case with kids/family I never had time to disappear into the bath the moment I got home. 10 mins shower was always possible). I find this really valuable in a WFH scenario. these days I run/exercise right after work so the shower is simply needed anyway
in case of burn-out:
- compartmentalize my work and private life as much as possible (time wise but if possible also location: in WFH this means work-laptop/phone remains in my home-office powered down as an extra hurdle to avoid me popping in at 23:00 to check up on an important thought ...).
- in case of burn-out: maybe my job is, but my private life isn't a hamster-wheel. cut the training-plan crap and goal setting to a minimum. it's OK to just go for a run and not worry about reaching the correct times set out in the training plan in prep for a marathon where I'm competing against thousands of others. it's OK to compete for fun but don't overdo it.
but everything what parent & GP said too.
About brain fog, mind-wandering etc: I have this since at least 2012. It came with my burn-out back then and a complete melt-down and dissolution of my personality. I feel like my head is wrapped in cotton or there is some barrier between me and my outside world. at the same time I have this I also gained the ability of sitting still without any desire or urge to push forward with anything if I want to. Might be an age thing but I'm now able to play with my own thoughts all day long and don't get stressed by the idea of not communicating with anyone. I still enjoy company and conversation but I also value being able to spend time simply sitting there and thinking (like a lunatic perhaps idk).
Don't forget about "right livelihood"! :)
doing the exact opposite of how you feel
It can be a surprising truth that you have the freedom to choose to do something, even if you don't feel you want to. Your agency is not enslaved to your emotions.Another tack is to approach the activity as an experiment or exploration. Not I must do this, or even if I do this it will help, but: I wonder if it will help, or even I bet it won't, let's see who's right!
I find for situations like that, the blastoff technique works well. When you find you need to do something, instead of thinking about it, start counting backwards from 5, like you're a rocket getting ready to blastoff. It takes 4-5 seconds for the other part of the mind to come in and override the action, so as long as you jump out of bed before that timer hits zero, it's easy. This way you can do whatever it is you need to get done regardless how you feel. You can always think about how to do it once you've gotten started. It sounds silly but it works very well and is super easy to do. A zen teacher once told me, "Don't think. Do." to mean basically the same thing.
Meaning, for the stone age feelings parts of the brain, to realize that "but I want to stay in bed"?
If one acts faster than that part of the brain, then it's harder for it to mess things up? (Like, feeling sad, worrying, doing nothing)
Work is fun though and getting up in the morning too, but ... Well there are a bunch of other things I've postponed for months now soon
I personally got to the point where I was practically fantasizing about dying and still wasn’t sure if that’s real depression. I think we ease into it and forget what being happy was like, such that the depression practically becomes normal. It’s awful
It's really amazing how easy this is to understand, if you've been through it.
What else can you do when you're hurting like that though. I mean, if you don't have the tools to cope, the mental capacity to endure much more, the experience to draw on to recognize the patterns and trajectories and so on. You're practically forced to deny or defer it when you're unequipped to manage it.
Do a depression test.[1] And remember that there is nothing wrong with being depressed. It's just like having the common cold, it's a temporary illness that can pass.
Seriously, just do the test and if you need meds take them. It can save you a huge amount of pointless lost effort. There is nothing wrong with being depressed.
One thing interesting about society and its effect on individuals mental state, is it the absolute rating of a society's sanity (however we could rate that) or rather the delta between present and past, along with the perceived prospect of its future delta? You are perhaps touching on this as you are writing going "down" the hill. We might still be at the top of the Mountain, but that's hardly relevant.
That of course does not mean that less sensitive ones don't feel some uneasiness in the environment. They do, but the cook keeps dressing the heating broth with promises of better future, and lulls the frogs into attributing this uneasiness to depression. Because you see, psychiatry is just another cook's tool among forks, spoons and knives.
Erich Fromm did not use the term 'punitive psychiatry' for no reason.
1) A good first step is to see your GP, if you have one, and if you don't look up some reviews and find a decent one. If you're at the point where you lack the motivation to even do that, ask a friend or loved one to do it for you. If you don't have a resource like that around you, just click this link & put in your own zip code: https://www.healthgrades.com/usearch?what=General%20Medical%...
You see a GP first because they should run something like a complete metabolic panel along with tests for things like vitamin D levels. It's entirely possible to get mis-diagnosed with (psychological) depression when there is a more concrete metabolic cause.
Other readers, please please don't downvote this next part for language, use of caps, etc., this is seriously important
2) About it never going away. Oh hell that's the feeling all right. But here's the thing about a depressed brain telling you things: IT IS A FUCKING LIAR. Your mind tells you that, so you feel worse, and it feels even harder to over come, and the spiral continues. You CAN feel better. It might honestly be the hardest thing you ever do, but you have to claw back up inch by inch. Shit, inches can be hard at times. Go for millimeters when you need to. When you get pushed back down at times, IT'S TEMPORARY. Just keep taking that tiny step in front of you. One. Tiny. Step. Motivation is hard. Doing things you liked before is hard. Focus on doing small things. Focus on finding 5 minutes, or one minute, of distraction from your headspace at a time. A good simple technique is to overload your physical senses: 1) Light a candle/spray some scent 2) Put on some background noise-- music, anything 3) Fill a glass (real glass to conduct the cold) to the top with ice, and ANYTHING carbonated. If you don't do soda, go for seltzer or something. Wrap your hands around the cold glass. Keep it near your lips & take sips. You've got all 5 senses covered: Smell, sound, touching the cold, hearing the fizz of the bubbles, the taste as you sip & sensation of the carbonation. You're brain does have a bandwidth limit, and hitting all 5 senses saturates a lot of it. An ice-cold shower is also good. These things aren't silver bullets, aren't a cure: You're looking to get incremental periods of time where you don't feel like crap. Over time, they can build, and get easier. Look for other small 5 minute distractions that take you out of your head, whatever works. Getting out of this is a game of inches.
Finally: NONE of #2 replaces treatment. It's a single coping mechanism that can work to take the slightest edge off things. Therapy, medication if needed, those should be on your list for consideration. Maybe check out the DBSA: https://www.dbsalliance.org/support/ Groups are everywhere, and if that's not your thing or none are actually near you, they do daily online meetings. Talk or not, or just take it in. Sometimes knowing it's not just you can help, but you'll also hear how other people cope with this. A good inventory of coping mechanisms to take the edge off is very important.
IT WON'T LAST FOREVER. YOU CAN FEEL BETTER.
To most anyone thoughts that pop up in our head come out of a black hole, an unknown. What's actually happening is we're seeing something in the present moment (thinking memories in the present moment too) and that thing we're seeing causes an emotional response, often an unconscious one. The unconscious mind then looks for neighboring memories by emotional lookup and brings those familiar memories up into conscious thought, which is how ideas pop up in our head.
This is a pretty profound insight, because for example, it means when one is in a depressed state, if it is strong enough, all they can remember is memories of being in a similar emotional state causing a memory compartmentalization. This forgetting of positive memories makes depression seem like it's forever. One helpful thing is a photo of a good memory, or a letter to ones self, or another form of nostalgia, which can then pull the person out of the depressed episode. For some people it's enough to end the depression then and there in its tracks.
Likewise, from this understanding, it can be easy to see the challenge therapists face regarding depression and other memory compartmentalization related psychological disorders, because their patient forgets instructions that could help them when they need it most.
This also shows how manipulation works. How, emotional language can determine how a person thinks, programming them. One fun experiment is to watch a bit of Fox and look at the emotions instead of what they're directly saying. You'll start to see things like they're telling people to not trust others, for example, or like how they were saying anything regarding Biden is boring, so you shouldn't watch it, and so on. Manipulation is controversial to talk about, but so is depression, so fuck it. Let's have some fun. ^_^
same for say, abused wives. say they get out of their situation and meet a nice person. then one day that person gets angry that the dog shat in their best shoes and they have a fit which reminds her of her previous relationship. the memories come flooding back.
depression is the same. for me it's been a recurring failure of academic and meritorious achievements. in our society not achieving these things is like a frying pan in the face when you want to do something that requires experience say. sure, I've learned to duck, but everytime life swings a frying pan at my face [being fired, not meeting qualifications, being considered unreliable/unintelligent etc] all those old memories come back. so you end up dodging one frying pan and get hit by another, as if there were some kind of compound interest frying pan abyss. my metaphor for the muscle memory of depression. eventually you just take the hits cause what's the use in trying to dodge the pan?
i will say this though; after being on disability for a decade there is something bitter sweet about the rising levels of depression brought on by covid. while i don't wish depression on anybody whatsoever, and hope one day we'll find some perfect somatic solution to it, misery really does love company.
I'm not sure how to get the depression out of the muscle memory, but i do know we need to do a better job of getting people away from their trauma.
I know how, but it's a deep topic that a single comment on an online forum can barely begin to do justice.
First, I worry of a potential negative side effect of believing in muscle memory, regardless if it is or is not true. The concern is it could lead to the belief of static memory. Memory is impermanent and easy to change; you're not suck with it. So much so, there is a police interrogation technique that does just this to get innocent people thrown in prison. (I'm not kidding.)
How it works is they show a bunch of faces, one with the person they want to be found guilty to the victim. The victim says no to all of them or, "I don't know.." and then later the police come in with a new lineup of photos. All of the photos are different expect the person they want to be found guilty. Usually a second time is enough. The victim will recognize the person shown twice and announce, "It's them. They did it!" If not, they'll keep doing this until that is the eventual consequence. It usually only takes a few times.
One particular interesting study on stripping out memories (or muscle memory if you prefer) is how MDMA therapy works on PTSD. PTSD is a condition similar to anxiety, but different, in which they may have reoccurring nightmares of a horrific event, or if something reminds them of that event irl they may have a traumatic flashback. Clearly their old memories are causing them great distress. So how does this therapy work? Well, MDMA has a side effect of not being able to feel fight or flight on it, and it turns out our memory is read once, write many. This means the second we remember something, it gets erased from our long term memory. Our mind recalls the memory (processes it) and while processing it, it writes a new memory back to long term memory with its contents. On MDMA the fight or flight in the memories can not be processed, so what gets written back is a memory without the trauma attached to it.
Read once, write many has numerous side effects. For example, the very act of recalling a memory over and over again changes it. You can do this experiment on yourself by writing down a story, then recalling it in your memory by saying it out loud like you're telling someone that story. Each time you say it the memory will be modified. Keep going and after around 10 times some details should be obviously wrong. You can then compare this version to the old one to see yourself. It's a solo version of telephone game.
So you can alter your memories, you may be able to even find a way to strip the depression out when being hit over the face (Which you can.), but wait there's more.
How one responds to the present moment is a habit. Every response you will ever give is a habit, even to a new and unexpected situation. It's pretty entertaining to observe the variation of habits people have between cultures. In the US if something unexpected happens like on a hidden game show Americans might be like, "Whaaaaatt??" or might punch someone who startles them, or just in general Americans are very reactive. In the UK when something unexpected happens on a hidden game show they tend to freeze. Sometimes they look around, but they usually pause and wait. It's quite a different response.
Once we realize our responses to the present moment are habits, it's as simple (and as difficult) as changing those habits to new habits that are better suited. This can be as extreme as teaching someone with borderline personality disorder how to not freak out and start yelling when they fall in love with someone, to something more subtle like in your situation not responding with being depressed when life gives you a shitty day.
To change ones habits, they have to be aware of the causality. That is they have to see the present moment before their response and then have a planned alternative response. You always have to have an alternative response, as purely cutting out a habit is difficult, but replacing a habit is much easier. Once the cause (the present moment event) is caught before the response happens, a new habit can be put in. It is nearly instantaneous and a massive amount of mindfulness is needed. One way to cultivate this level of mindfulness is by meditating, which has the side effect of increasing mindfulness. This teaching of how to change ones habits to not have negative responses is a key ingredient to removing dukkah or psychological stress, but it is commonly translated to the word suffering. This is a Buddhist teaching (not the religion) which modern day psychology has picked up on. Enlightenment in Buddhism is the end of dukkah, so the end of all negative psychological responses to things. As you can see I can and am giving you a deep dive into this technique anyone can do with a bit of practice showing it's quite real. Enlightenment does not have to be mysterious. It can be grounded in science.
Aggregates are formations of thoughts, which typically manifest as visual elements, such as "seeing" things "in mind". Not necessarily "visualizing", but more like "visual historic recall" or "predictive recall of future events".
Unfortunately (perhaps), I don't do this thing with images or sound. But I am aware others do. I do it with thoughts and feelings.
Although imagery is typical, audio aggregates, feeling aggregates, smell aggregates and more are also possible. Thinking mind aggregates are the worst because they spawn other aggregates! :) Like other types of aggregates (gravel for example) there is usually a good mix of emotion, images, sounds and other sense bases manifesting, in mind.
What Buddha taught was that, in order to "see" these things for what they are, one must sit and focus on "noting" the events/aggregates as they pass our awareness filters. This would give a sense of "causality" to the mediator. By noting these aggregates, over time and with attention, they (the aggregates) will eventually liberate themselves from the mind.
Try sitting until you think of something and then ask yourself internally and very clearly and precisely "Who is it that cares about this?" This is a good technique for bringing thinking mind to a halt for a moment, at least in most.
Anything we do that is repetitive in nature, which does not improve us, is a type of "ill being". Following a recommended path of "well being" will allow us to escape the day to day suffering (assault by aggregates) most experience.
As for manipulation & programming, I used to be an adjunct professor teaching a topic related to persuasion. I always had a few exercises where I'd show a slide with 10 related words for 10 seconds and ask the students, without writing them down, to remember as many as they could. Then I would go through a few, asking them to close their eyes, and I'd repeat a few words, asking them to raise their hands if they remembered one word, then another. Then I would ask them if they remembered an 11th related word, one that was not on the original list. Cognitive priming with the first 10 words usually produced a 50% response of students saying they remembered the word that wasn't even there. It would always get a good laugh. I hope it also left a lasting impression.
The correct way to say this is "I didn't feel".
It might be irrelevant, but if I were in your shoes I would have liked to be shown the correct way to say it. Not trying to be pedantic.
Edit: unless you meant "I haven't felt", which has of course a different meaning.
One thing I can say, at least for me, is that exercise has helped.