Hacker News Reader

Comment by specialist | Hacker News Reader

Emphatic double agreement.

I just want hot water. Give me hot water.

(Though some kind of temperature sensor could be nice.)

My second rage inducing grievance is bad cleanability. All the places dirt, scuz, grime fill up. Nooks, crannies, crevices, shelves, dials, mounts.

My third grievance is bad cable management. WTF am I supposed to tuck away the power cable? How do I secure it for storage?

My Vitamix blender, mixer, hot iron, instapot, sawzall, portable fans and heaters, the pre-USB-C Mac power bricks... All piss me off on the regular.

The least cleanable product I've ever owned was a Samsung fridge. iFixit would give it a -2/10 rating. I can only conclude its designers and product manager had never seen a fridge before. Or thoroughly hated all fridge-kind and were exacting revenge as part of some enduring blood feud.

PS- We need an iCleanIt product review site.

View on HN

One suggestion is to look for products that have an NSF approval. This in the US, this means the product is approved for use in a commercial kitchen. Amount other things Cleanabilty is requirement.

There are many NSF approved products that work well in home (microwaves). Others such as commercial refrigerators are generally not appropriate for home use.

Your Vitamix should have cable management on the bottom. At least, all the ones I’ve ever seen/had have it.

Appearances only. It's more of a mismanagement system. It'd be better if they didn't even pretend to try.

I'd be ecstatic if there were exposed tines and I could just wrap the power cord. Like a typical vacuum cleaner.

But it's a recessed wind up area, and you really have to force the cable in, precisely to fully hide the cable. If you don't, there's a pig tail remainder. In which case, why bother at all?

There might be some other reason...just speaking generally since I don't know which model you're talking about, but maybe you can't do what you want because of some factor, like minimum bend radius of the power cable.

I can’t speak for everything but:

the vitamin blender, for cleaning, fill it water, some dish soap, and blend for 45 seconds at full power, then rinse out.

For the instant pot. It’s just a regular pot. Take it out and stick it in the dishwasher. I agree with your point in general but those are dead simple to manage.

Instapots have a bunch of ridges where the lid clicks into place.

Not easy to clean. :( Not impossible, but if anything gets caked on there, rather annoying.

Also the lid gets scummy, not hard to wipe off, but there are enough snooks and crannies that it is a bit irritating.

There is always rice in that stupid trough around the edge. Always. I clean it, and then I come back the next day and there's rice there again.

IKR.

I loved my Magefesa pressure cooker. So easy to clean. Its design is very nearly the pinnacle of human achievement. I damaged the valve and that tiny plastic insert cost almost as much as a whole new unit, so I decided to try the InstaPot that everyone was crazy about.

I cannot fathom how someone ends up designing the InstaPot. They must have started with a CrockPot.

I do like the timer. Next time I'll upgrade my stove and stick with the dumb pot.

Don't get me wrong, I love how simple instapots are, and not using up one of my 2 high btu burners is a giant feature.

On the bright side, infinite rice!

One grain at a time. I need to get signed up for that whole chessboard-exponential-doubling-rice program

Do all Vitamix machines have the rubber seal arranged so that the threads are on the food-side of the seal? Look at any other non-conical thread, like for garden hoses or fire hoses. The thread doesn't even get wet. All of the vitamix machines I've seen let pulverized food collect in the threads and quickly begin to smell terrible, because the rubber seal is at the base of the male side rather than the base of the female side.

> All of the vitamix machines I've seen let pulverized food collect in the threads and quickly begin to smell terrible, because the rubber seal is at the base of the male side rather than the base of the female side.

I've had a single Vitamix for...huh, well over a decade, at any rate, and I've never had this problem with pretty consistent heavy use the whole time we've owned it. Pretty consistently cleaned according to directions, which are as described upthread.

I kinda had that problem with my former KitchenAide. You need tools to disassemble my VitaMix's pitcher, so i've never done so.

> For the instant pot. It’s just a regular pot. Take it out and stick it in the dishwasher.

The problem with cleaning an instant pot is not the metal pot itself, but the body and lid.

The lid is easy, you can just wash in a sink.

The body is a little annoying, but I've had good luck just running a damp folded cloth/paper towel around it towards the wider part, takes a few seconds.

Granted, I'm a germophobe. Doubly so after my transplant.

VitaMix

There are two hard to reach cavities.

The outer ring of the top plug fills with debris. https://www.webstaurantstore.com/vitamix-062984-lid-plug/HP7... This one really pisses me off. It'd be so easy to redesign the plug to eliminate the cavity.

The second is the underside of the pitcher, between the side wall and the center spindle. This one is only annoying. Can't find a pic, but this is the pitcher. https://thingsaroundthehouse.com/vitamix-7500-vs-5200/

I use looped pipe cleaners to scrub these cavities clean.

I could fully disassemble my former KitchenAide's pitcher to clean every component. Alas, the Vitamix does better with all the big leafy greens I now consume.

InstaPot

I like the cord unplugs from the appliance. This should be the norm.

Where do I put the cord? Inside the pot? Great, now I have to clean the cord too. Or rinse the pot before using it again. Sometimes I kinda fold the cord and stuff it thru the top handle.

The cleanability problem for the instant pot is more the ring that the lid attaches to, which becomes an instant crumb/liquid trough. Not that big a deal but still easy to let lazily accrue into an unsettling (and potentially malodorous) food science experiment.

I would add all the unnecessarily loud and often endless beeping to the list of nuissances.

I appreciate the beeps might have a purpose for accessibility but it really feels like the mute function should be active by default, rather than digging through the manual to find out how to mute it.

> Though some kind of temperature sensor could be nice

Some microwaves have a steam sensor, and use that to detect how cooked something is

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiS27feX8o0&t=239 at 3:59

Just curious...why use a microwave for hot water instead of an electric kettle?

Speed plus that way I don't need to own an electric kettle.

Speed?

In terms of time and energy, a kettle is faster and more efficient.

I guess a kettle is a single-purpose tool, and if a microwave oven is available, and you don't mind waiting while large volumes (1+ litres) are boiled, and have suitable receptacles to hold and contain that much water while boiling inside a microwave oven, this makes some sense.

(In contrast, I don't own a microwave oven.)

> Speed?

I just have a big 12L boiler on the counter, it's always hot and usually full, and I never have to wait very long for a hot drink. It's amazing. I couldn't live without it now.

It depends where you live. Kettles are faster in the uk, but the us base power isn't fast enough to be fastly powerful.

It's the same electricity, given two times the current, at half the voltage your kettle will boil in exactly the same time, because P = V*I

But given that most circuits in a house in the U.S. are limited to 15A or 20A (rare), you can't just double the current. Electric kettles in the U.S. are limited to 15A and therefore a max power of 1800W.

Thanks for the correction, I didn't know that in the UK kettles commonly have a power rating of up to 3KW. Looks like the EU tried to ban such high power appliances in 2014, but I don't think they did. MediaMarkt in Germany has many kettles with power rating of 2400W. This would be doable in the US (barely), but only with 20A wiring and NEMA 5-20 sockets, which are not very popular.

In the US, I've only ever seen 20A circuits in garages/workshops. Kinda wish we had gone for 220v like most European countries, but it's far too late to change that now.

Code requires 20amp circuits in the kitchen (and garage). However it allows 15amp outlets so long as you can pass the full 20amps through, which all do.

Or did you mean. 230 volts?. Every time I accidentally come in contact with mains (only twice in my life, but that is more than enough) I'm glad we are lower, and wish it was less.

You didn't mention where you are.

In any case, regardless of geographical location, voltage doesn't kill you -- current does.

In Australia most household circuits are ~230V AC at 50Hz at 10 Amp, though 15 Amp circuits are not uncommon (the earth pin - we have three pins in a frowny-face configuration, earth being the lower / vertical one) on those are much larger, so you can't accidentally put that into a standard 10A (female) socket.

We have three-phase options too, which is ~ 415V AC - not something that's commonly used in residential environments.

In any case, 230V @ 10A is less dangerous than 110V at 15A.

V=ir. That simple equation is why you are wrong. Double the voltage and the current goes up. The human body is high enough resistance that you won't blow a fuse so current depends on voltage.

I get V=ir, but I'm not seeing any good answers to the question of non-linearity of humans' resistance.

I will note that 0.2A is enough to stop your heart, and 2A will almost definitely kill you (with enough damage that you're probably not coming back).

Consequently I'm not sure how a 15A (USA) circuit could be considered safe even in the relative sense.

Voltage determines the current that actually flows during a shock. The amperage ratings you are citing are the maximum amperage that can be drawn before the breaker pops. This protects from fire, it does nothing to prevent death from shocks, in any country. You will be burnt to a crisp before you trip the current-limiting breaker, in any country.

High voltages are dangerous because they can overcome the resistance of human skin, which then enables current to flow.

Right, so assuming everyone's got dry hands, or comparably dry hands, then you'd expect to see lower fatality rates in the USA (and other countries that use ~110V) compared to countries that use 230-240V.

Does that hypothesis actually align with the data?

I'm struggling to find good figures that spell this out on a region by region basis.

The data are often muddied, f.e. by including lightning strikes, ladders or trucks hitting overhead high-voltage power lines, self-harm / suicide attempts, etc.

For example, some Australian data for a 2-year period [1]

  > 55 deaths involving electrical injury - 50 male, 5 female
  > 8 were lightning strikes
  > 17 were intentional self-harm
  > 18 were were due to exposure to other specified electric current

Either way that's about 26 / year out of a population of ~25M ~= 1 per million.

In the USA I'm finding:

  > Electrocution is the fifth leading cause of occupational injury death
  > 41% of cases involved overhead power lines

Alternatively [3] for USA:

  > Electrocution is sixth among causes of workplace deaths
  > Electrical hazards cause more than 300 deaths

300 out of a population of ~330M ~= 1 per million

[1] https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/injury/electrical-injuries-d...

[2] https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/8/4/306

[3] https://www.electrocuted.com/safety/statistics/

Addenda - my numbers are wrong.

I was including lightning strikes in the AU numbers, but the US numbers were electrical (lines, domestic, construction, etc) only.

So fatality ratios skew higher in the USA than AU, at least. The numbers are quite low in both cases, so the ostensible safety benefits of 110V at 15-20A may not be terribly compelling in practice.

Because in the US, it is more and more common to run everything on 14ga wire. It’s just cheaper to run low end plugs most places.

OTOH, in my workshop, I just got done running a 60A circuit at 220v for a welder. I wish I could have the same for a kettle.

I think of the US as the best of both worlds because we have split phase so you can get 240 if you want, but we run the safer 120 to most of the house.

Similarly, in Ireland where we run 230VAC single phase, three phase 400VAC allows up to 22kW to be delivered, which is about to become extremely useful as we migrate to electric transportation.

Also, on safety, I don't know the statistics, but subjectively, electricity feels much more dangerous in the US because of the plug and socket design.

Refer my comment elsewhere in this thread, but I suspect your belief that '120 is safer than 230 or 240' is misplaced.

F.e. standard USA circuits are 15A, IIRC. In Australia, in contrast, it's typically 10A.

Hence, Australia's safer than USA - though realistically any amount of current is fairly unpleasant.

That's not how ohms law works.

The current is determined by the voltage divided the resistance.

The current that flows during a shock would not be limited by breaker size in any country -- you'll be long dead by the time 1 amp flows.

That would've made Brexit a lot more popular!

/0.5jk

1800W kettle is still going to boil faster than a microwave, surely.

It takes 60s to heat a cup of water to boiling. I'm not heating a liter of water.

Personally, I don't own the latter... and have no desire to. Microwave serves that need and more

If I'm not mistaken, using a microwave to heat water is significantly less efficient than an electric kettle; a lot of EM energy is wasted just bouncing around the cavity and heating up the air.

And an electric kettle will boil water quickly and controllably (no sudden boil-overs), often in less time than a microwave.

And more safely, as there is no possibility of superheating the water.

One less thing to have, and I think it might be quicker? Not sure on that, but I do know that electric kettles are much more prevalent in the UK with their 230V mains.

you could plausibly say microwaves are wireless electric kettles, designed to heat water (molecules)

Let’s say you want to hear to 85c instead of boiling. Or just use it to heat water to 40c for baby formula.

Electric Kettle is wasting energy either way - almost none have configurable temps.

I purchased one with a temp setting, they exist and are amazing.

You can get a kettle for £30 now with temp control, albeit you choose from 4 temps - 40/60/80/100 (low-mid range, low prices are around £12; mid would be £30-50 IMO): eg https://amzn.to/2Us6fPP [aff].

Strangely all UK stores (Tesco, John-Lewis, Currys, et al.) appear only to sell the traditional boil-only ones, which is curious.

As I drink primarily instant coffee I'm in the market for a temp control kettle, hopefully with double-wall insulation. Open to suggestions!

I found a decent one on Amazon that has a thermometer - so you can hit any temps you want to, at the cost of having to watch it (worst case you dilute with a bit of cold water if you overshoot). Very noisy though (Klarstein)

Normal electric kettle does not work by sensing the temperature, but by detecting change of pressure inside caused by the boiling water. The mechanism is purely mechanical, simple, cheap and reliable but there is no way to make the temperature configurable.

This is the one we have at home https://www.breville.com/au/en/products/tea/bke720.html, works great!

Faster and not a single purpose device.

It definitely isn't faster.

Clearly you’re not British

Exactly. At some point I figured out I only heat water. (Tired of cleaning it.) So I left it on the curb (poof, gone). I learned a normal small pot boils water faster anyway. Felt really stupid (facepalm) about that.

Fair enough! Looks like there is a big difference in electricity between US and UK as well? I am in Australia and we use our kettle (with several different preset temperatures) all the time.

Or rather an induction stove, which anecdotally seems to boil water faster.

> My second rage inducing grievance is bad cleanability. All the places dirt, scuz, grime fill up. Nooks, crannies, crevices, shelves, dials, mounts.

This bugs me to no end, and it isn't limited to consumer-grade appliances. Work tables, counters, and other surfaces will be made of a food-grade stainless while simultaneously having a giant crevice that can't be properly accessed without a pressure washer and which has the moldy gunk cleaned out of it...never.

> I just want hot water. Give me hot water.

I always forget that Americans heat water in the microwave instead of an electric kettle.

Some of us. I do it on the stove in a pot or a kettle.

I'm sure these are bad for the environment but at least in Japan (and Taiwan?) pretty much every household has a water boiler. They do have buttons but in general you turn them on, they keep the water at 90, 95, or 98c.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=zojirushi+water+boiler&crid=32LNK...

How is this an improvement over an electric kettle?

They keep the water warm indefinitely, apparently.

The water is always hot. Instant coffee and beverages are popular there, so it makes a difference that hot water is ready to go with no waiting time. And in Japan at least, the household voltage is only 100V, so kettles take forever to heat up.

It wastes power (and AC load) but might save a tiny amount of time compared to a low power electric kettle.

We have one and I think it's incredible and incredibly useful. I'm curious about the "bad for the environment" comment.

Ours is a 2005 model and it is in pristine condition, has no scaling, because we descale it once or twice a year, and it still works as well as it did when it was first purchased. My wife is Chinese-American and "water pots" are standard fare in most Asian households. Ditto for Zojirushi Rice Cookers. For the record, our rice cooker is 13 years old, is used 4-5+ times a week, and both looks and works as if it were brand new.

Isn't it dangerous to microwave water due to superheating?

I had just written a reply about how superheating is unlikely because the water would have to be pure (i.e. distilled), but I looked it up and it turns out that's a myth! So exploding superheated water is indeed a potential risk from microwaving

I'm always on the lookout for it (if I see bubbles, I know it's safe), since I regularly boil water in the microwave, and I've even tried to superheat water just to see what it was like, but I've never actually succeeded at it. My understanding is that it's more about whether your container has nucleation sites for bubbles to form than about the purity of the water. My pyrex measuring cup must have plenty of scratches on the inside.

try boiling it twice. once, cool a little, then try it again.

Thanks for the tip, but no luck; it just started boiling again.

but did it start to gradually boil, or boil sort of all-at-once?

Only if you use far too much power x time.

You know, I've boiled water in the microwave and then forgotten it (I want a nag beep)...

So I heated it a second time and it got to boiling point violently all at once.

I think it's because all the air is boiled out of it the first time, which agitates things as it reaches 212f/100c

This reminds me of a particular popular shaving brand. Their shaving foam comes in a steel can, which readily corrodes in the wet bathroom evironment, leaving rust stains.

You can have a nice user interface.... you just have to let them collect all the data all the time. (5g will make this worse)

Oh wait, that doesn't mean it's better and the intrusiveness cancels out all the convenience plus more.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com