Hacker News Reader

Comment by throw51319 | Hacker News Reader

I don't get why the Trumpers hate Obama so much... he's always come across as well thought out and pragmatic.

There's a fraction of the media that repeats unsubstantiated claims enough that their viewers believe them to be true. Examples: Climate change is a hoax, or Obama is a muslim from an African country.

I've lost count of the number of people who I met who blatantly make the above statements as if they are matter-of-fact... Because they watch the media that perpetuates these myths, every single day.

So, the vitriol towards Obama comes from a fraction of the media that will stop at nothing to destroy him.

(And, before someone goes and says that "the liberal media does it too," remember that the rest of American media does not openly contradict established facts to forward a political agenda.)

Neither of those attributes is relevant to those who would support a demagogue.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/opinion/how-to-protect-am...

Cause that's how tribalism works.

I'm not a trump fan by any means but obama was just another 8 years of bush. he didn't do much to end the wars, wall street got a raise especially those at the very top, no one was held accountable for the financial crisis, he gave more and more jobs away to china, obamacare gave huge profits to the insurance industry (which is why you didn't see republicans repeal it even when controlling the senate and house), he leapt at the chance to help tech companies who didn't need it, he limited civil liberties, and so on. It's so frustrating to see liberals bend over backwards to defend him.

You're not wrong, but none of those things are why Trumpers hate him. It's racism, pure and simple.

I have come to the conclusion that presidents all follow the same playbook, more or less. Once they get into office it's house of cards, the advisors giving the same advice, same office machinations. I imagine there is a lot of resistance for wavering from the norm.

Obama had election promises to get out of conflicts, close Guantanamo Bay, and so on. Campaign promises reneged and the continuance of Bush era executive power overriding the course of legislation.

Compared to Trump Obama looks good, but in reality he wasn't really anything special apart from his eloquence and kind demeanor which I am sure Republicans dismissed as Democrats dismiss the qualities of Rep. Presidents. It's all just the same shit from different sides, it's kind of laughable really.

Obama also promised to close Guantanamo immediately after his inauguration. He was still at the Capital.

Seeing him fail to deliver on that promise changed my opinion of him completely.

why all the downvoters? I just listed a bunch of totally reasonable objections to his time in office. Are people that attached to political figures? I don't understand. I feel like hackernews is a good place to criticize all politicians, including those you like. I voted for him if you are curious lol

I do not hate Obama - but his administration's abysmal record in multiple fronts drove me to Trump.

Where were the Perp walks? He got chummy with Wall Street and cashed out after his "retirement". He over saw Putin making territorial expansions and was really ineffective containing Russia and China. etc.

Color me Furious when a dude with 7 million dollar mansion in DC and Martha's Vineyard complains about not giving up on America.

I'm not looking to stan Obama, but I have to quibble with "Russian territorial expansions".

Losing Ukraine as a de facto puppet state and having to invade to keep critical port infrastructure in the Crimea isn't an expansion, it's a mitigated loss.

Genuine question. After a Trump term, are you still supporting him? Also, do you see his refusal to concede as legit?

LOL at mentioning all those things as a factor that "drove" you to Trump. No, you drove yourself to Trump.

Trump is literally worse in every point you listed.

So, you think Obama was a swindler and you voted for Trump? I wouldn't trust your background checking abilities...

But I get it, you made a choice and you tried to find a justification for that choice. I saw this speech and Q&A with Yanis Varoufakis the other day, and at one point he reiterated the "Fuck you, establishment!" motivations of Trump and Brexit-voters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGeevtdp1WQ&feature=youtu.be... .

Voting for Hillary would have meant a continuation of Obama, out of anger or desperation of how shitty their lives had been, many in the electorate thought "Let's just vote for change, it might be shit, or it might be good, at least we know it'll be change.". And IMO Trump voters probably found justification after they made up their minds to vote for him, fooling themselves "He's not shit!" and clutching to empty hopes that Trump will fulfill his car salesman promises...

20 minutes, -2 points. What's wrong with what I wrote? Or did I forget yet again that HN is probably full of "libertarians" and should I wonder why I even come back and try to contribute here...

Its cool if you mostly stick to tech topics tbh.

Nothing's wrong with your message, but its content made some people unhappy, and they used downvote as a 'disagree' button.

Frankly I think your take is right on. A vote for Hillary well may have been a vote for leadership that would continue to ignore the deteriorating parts of America, and Trump made the effort to pander and campaign to the people in those areas. Put on the cloak of the Christian right too, even though he is an obvious stranger to both spirituality and Judeo-Christian morality.

So you didn’t like that Obama was chummy with Wall Street, and then voted for a billionaire?

Trump being billionaire before joining Politics is not a bad thing in my book. I am worried about the centi-millionaires whose only profession is Politics like the Clintons, Pelosi, Mitch etc. Of course, Obamas are on that road too.

Buddy, if you think the results of the power structures of those two groups of people are different, you got another thing comin'. Do you consider it bad that Trump's wealth was bolstered by hundreds of millions in tax abatements from that same politician class?

I'm not arguing that it wouldnt be great if our politicians would all go back to their farms in recess, but I am saying that in today's world and with our system, that it's impossible.

Buddy, I understand better than you think I do. Trump played the game no doubt, but I am more interested those who call themselves People's representatives not playing the games..

Trump, by way of his family, was just shy of being a billionaire before joining the business world. Family money is a powerful thing for starting in business, and it can help pull up your bootstraps when you go bankrupt (6 times).

EDIT: Two minor corrections prompted by downvoters. 6 bankruptcies instead of 7, and his family wealth in 1980 was, inflation adjusted, a bit shy of a billion (~$900 million). My bad.

Lol, so if earning millions as a politician is so reprehensible in your eyes, how do you feel about the fact that Trump has spent taxpayer money on his own resorts? Last I checked, his golf tab has run into the hundreds of millions, over a million just in hotel rooms for secret service agents. Trump is easily the worst political grifter since Al Gore.

> Color me Furious when a dude with 7 million dollar mansion in DC and Martha's Vineyard complains about not giving up on America.

And you went to a trust fund narcissist who has never demonstrated any care for anyone but himself, I would have voted for almost anyone other than Donald Trump.

If the vast majority of the country is OK being indentured to the 1%, there is very little anyone can do to fix things.

Your Messiah had power for 8 years, his tonto will have for 4 years let us see your UTOPIA. We know what the snapshot is at 2016.

I am sure, you will be on streets for unionizing Amazon workforce.. happy to join you when you start that protest.

You insist that progress towards a better society is too slow so you vote for the guy with regressive policies? The only thing that can prevent actual (slow) progress over time?

I really hope you regret that decision. Obama might have been ineffective against Russia and China, but Trump has been worse in every possible way. With China, his "hardline" stance is all rhetorical; it hasn't hurt China at all, and has hurt America substantially. And with Russia, Trump has been a massive enabler. Not only did his campaign seek out foreign election interference from Russia, but when caught, went through substantial efforts to pin the blame on Ukraine. And he is constantly groveling on behalf of Putin, begging to invite him into the G7, even doing so after knowing that Russia was putting bounties on American soldiers' heads. And don't stop there, Trump is hands down the most corrupt executive officer in the history of the US...dozens of personally appointed staff ended up with criminal convictions, so much that he had to appoint a new Attorney General just to get the convictions to stop.

There is no world in which any criticism of Obama, or any other politician, Democrat or Republican, should lead someone to support Trump. I too did not like Obama and refused to vote for him for his second term, but I would vote for a flaming turd in a paper bag on my doorstep over Trump or anyone that supports him.

I do not regret my decision on Trump probably I would better judge it 10 years from now than currently. Probably I will regret just like I regretted my Obama support.

Please do not regurgitate MSNBC talking points like Bountygate, Suckergate.. I am aware of these and do not have trust in anonymous sources.

Those aren't talking points, and they certainly don't belong to MSNBC. The facts have been corroborated by multiple sources, published by hundreds of media outlets, many of which are international and apolitical towards the US. And they likely wouldn't have been anonymous sources if your chaos-mongering sociopath president didn't have a long history of attacking whistleblowers. Deflecting and disregarding substantial and material evidence because the person who exposed it wanted to not be attacked is pretty fucking pathetic.

It's worth considering what we get out of "confronting" these nations.

Surely we should protect our interests, but are Ukraine or the South China Sea more vital to us than they are to Russia and China? What's actually in it for us besides hegemony for its own sake?

Maybe fixing up some of our glaring domestic problems would be more effective in the long run.

> he's always come across as well thought out and pragmatic

Some people hate him because he's thoughtful and pragmatic. They appeal to emotion or faith, not intellect. Their goal is cataclysm, not stability. It sounds crazy, it is crazy, but from boogaloo bros to evangelicals it's a lot of Trump's base. Oh, and he's black. That matters a lot to an overlapping segment of that base, outweighing literally any other personal qualities he might have.

I think you’re missing that Obama’s decency and pragmatism are also emotional appeals to a certain kind of person. Personally it feels like bullshit to me (less bullshitty than Trump but still rings false).

More importantly, Obama’s decency or Trump’s lack thereof are mostly irrelevant to what many people want out of a president. For example, I want Medicare for all, a green new deal, no more drone strikes, nationalized internet, etc. We’re more likely to get those things by being angry, not by being civil.

  decency and pragmatism are also emotional appeals
  ...
  We’re more likely to get those things by being angry

I think it's clear whether Obama's supporters or detractors are relying on emotional appeals.

> I don't get why the Trumpers hate Obama so much... he's always come across as well thought out and pragmatic.

I know a lot of people don't want to hear this but a large number of people just can't accept that a Black man should live in the white house. That black man can be the best person in the world and this set of population can still not accept him due to reptilian hatred.

You can't generalize every supporter obviously but you can see it from which policies of Trump get the most support. It's not like Trump actually improved quality of life for anyone but he sure did tickle the reptilian hatred.

I don't know why this was down voted. This is pretty much it - white non-college educated males went crazy because someone beneath them was President..

Reply on news.ycombinator.com