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Comment by nightowl_games | Hacker News Reader

Yeah so basically in the windows world, a lot of the good laptops are under the "business class" of the various manufacturers:

Dell Precision, HP Elite Book, MSI Prestige

In the consumer world the Dell XPS, Asus Zenbook, Asus Pro Art are the way to go for a designer.

Dell Precision is probably the overall best laptop. MSI Prestige is targetted right at you though, with color accuracy and a good display. The only brand I can personally vouch for is Dell. I and my partner use XPS's, and a good friend of mine has a super nice Precision that I am jealous of (specifically the ports! I'm so over USB-C)

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Lenovo Thinkpad is another popular line, seems conspicuously absent from your list. They're known to have good resale value, and to work well with Linux. If you're getting up to the Precision line, the Lenovo P series workstations are also worth considering, though given they're actually professional-grade machines with Xeon and Quadro parts they'll be more expensive than a Macbook Pro.

There are also boutiques like System76, that white label, upgrade, and manage driver compatibility for Clevo laptops which may be worth considering, they just came out with a new Lemur Pro like yesterday.

Having used everything from xps to surface book 2, no laptop comes close to a ThinkPad. I am pretty much a fanboy of ThinkPad keyboards

I used to be too, until they changed them

Lenovo might be known that way, but they are exceptionally bad at supporting Linux. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-admits-ThinkPad-CPU-thr...

As far as I know this issue is still not fixed so I have to use this hack: https://github.com/erpalma/throttled

I’ve also had tremendous Thunderbolt-related firmware issues that could only be fixed in Windows. If you use Linux, there are much better options than Lenovo. I still use my T480 daily but I miss my old XPS 13, which gave me no issues ever.

I run Linux (Debian) on my Lenovo X1 Carbon and it works perfectly.

Linux works perfectly on mine as well, but I use Fedora.

The trackpad is bearable, and I have a 3rd generation so my 1080p screen isn't IPS, but it works well enough for $200.

Not sure about Carbons, but for T-series there are aftermarket IPS displays that you could swap for the original TN ones. Could be done in 30 min, with no previous experience, just with the service manuals from Lenovo and enough dexterity to handle a screwdriver.

>Lenovo might be known that way, but they are exceptionally bad at supporting Linux.

Absolutely no trouble on x395. It's been running Linux (Arch) for a year, and it is my main system.

Piling on to say I cut on teeth on Linux installing Breezy Badger on a Thinkpad T20. Since then I’ve never struggled with a Debian based OS on Thinkpads.

Thinkpad was one of the first laptop series which supported Linux explicitly.

Their competitor was Compaq NX series (HP EliteBook of today). Dell was late to the party and closed the gap by actively developing software for Linux (DKMS, Privacy Drivers, etc.).

I don't think you can conflate classic Thinkpad and current "Thinkpad".

Why not?

Lenovo's ThinkPad line is still quite differentiated from their other offerings. What are your objections to it?

When IBM didn't like the panels they could source for Thinkpads, they started a new company called International Display Technology to manufacture panels they did like. Thinkpads used to be special.

While it's entirely possible there's a connection between decisions like that and IBM's PC division being unprofitable enough they sold it to Lenovo, it might be reasonable to hope that Lenovo would make the effort to offer competitive panels when it's obviously possible for their competitors to source them.

Are they doing anything to prevent Linux from running well on them? As far as I can tell, since all big three (XPS, EliteBook and Thinkpad) are considered enterprise devices and their BIOS, IO tables and hardware layouts are crafted with Linux compatibility in mind.

They're explicitly sold with FreeDOS option to imply that you can directly install Linux on them.

Even my run on off the mill desktop shows more soft-errors about IO layout and memory mapped devices on board.

Exceptionally bad is a bit harsh. Windows is first tier support with Linux coming in as a second. In my experience they are pretty good about fixing remaining issues in firmware updates, which can be installed using fwupd (I don't have a Windows partition at all). I belive there's even a GNOME Software front-end if you prefer things being very easy.

I don't need to use throttled on my X1 Carbon 7th and they recently added mainline support for the fingerprint reader. All I had to do was enable it in GNOME Settings.

I have X1 Carbon 7th and need to use throttled to get full power.

Try to run performance test with s-tui if you see a difference.

On Arch the command to enable the fix is:

sudo systemctl enable --now lenovo_fix.service

I love my X1 (also 7th). This is the laptop which made me retire my actual desktop. Bought a docking station and a MOTU 8A for sound connectivity, and have no need for a classical desktop since.

I am not into gaming or graphics though. Still, with my (unusual) usage pattern I get almost 10 hours battery life time on the road, and all the CPU power I need locally. For heavy stuff, I compile remotely anyway.

I can't stand the (lack) of brightness on my X1 7th gen. Is that not a problem for you?

I can't for the life of me get it to be bright enough to use in a lit room. A bit of hyperbole here, but I basically have to hide in a closet and stuff a towel under the door to see the fucking screen. I love the keyboard, but I basically won't use the thing now because it's such a drag to use.

I don't think I've ever even set my 7th gen X1C to full brightness, it's perfectly usable. Is this a problem you tend to have with screens?

This is the only screen I've ever had to fight with to get something bright enough, and I'm nearing 40 so I've been through a metric buttload of computers and screens. It is hands down the worst screen I've ever had (and I still have a couple ~ 2006 20" acer lcds pressed into service in various comms closets and shop space in my house). The brightness on these is appalling and it doesn't help that Mint insists on resetting the brightness to 60% on every boot so I feel like I'm trying to walk through a house of horrors with only a single birthday candle for light.

Edit: the joke is that the house of horrors is my code

I had similar thoughts after purchasing my X13 AMD, not sure if you're experiencing the same thing I did. I was extremely disappointed with stock brightness when I first turned it on.

Turned out windows power saving and battery settings actually capped my brightness. So my user-controlled "100%" (via keyboard) actually becomes more like 60%, depending on the power profile.

As soon as I got a new m2 ssd, I shelved Windows and installed Fedora WS, which has no such issue. That is, if I say I want 100%, it obeys.

You can quickly test with either a live USB, or tweaking your power profiles.

I am blind (no joke), I couldn't care less about brightness :-) Well, actually, no, I execute a script after boot which basically does:

for backlight in leds/tpacpi::kbd_backlight backlight/intel_backlight; do dir="/sys/class/${backlight}"; if [ -d "${dir}" ]; then echo 0 > "${dir}/brightness"; fi; done

The firmware issues are fixed just fine with fwupdmgr. It also integrates nicely with Gnome.

You can even buy thinkpads with ubuntu out of the box now, so hard disagree.

I don't know about Ubuntu, but Lenovo offers machines with Fedora already installed.

> Lenovo has now admitted to the problem – and announced that it will be fixed.

How is that exceptionally bad support? I'd say that's the opposite.

I get firmware updates on my X1C because Lenovo decides to work with fwupd and the open source community, something most manufacturers refuse to do.

Check Thinkpad screens carefully as a lot of the new amd ones come with terrible 'business class' screens that I don't want to use as a developer, let alone as a designer .. and a repairman told me they are glued on these days so you can no longer swap them as you used to be able to.

Can confirm. I made the mistake of buying a T14s with a Ryzen 4000 CPU in it

The screen was something like 30% color accurate

Using something like F.Lux or Redshift to shift the color space at night resulted in...this

Linux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBx4mmPrM

Windows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgjqeDF9c50

Lenovo refused to replace the panel with a less atrocious SKU, claiming I could instead purchase it for a "mere" $600 USD(!)

Thankfully Australia has strong consumer protection laws and I was able to get the unit returned and refunded

Lenovo has got to be amongst the top, imho.

Lenovo P series workstations are also worth considering

I have a P72 and it is garbage. Plugged into a docking station it works OK as really expensive mid-range workstation. Trying to use it as a laptop causes the fans to spin like crazy, performance throttled to shit and the and battery life of maybe 90 minutes for even fairly modest workloads. The similarly specced Dell Precision I had before was much better in every way and was actually usable as a laptop.

The P5X series that many of my colleagues have seem much better.

>Trying to use it as a laptop causes the fans to spin like crazy, performance throttled to shit

So, just like macbook?

I was going to say - that does sound very much like my MacBook Pro.

The P4X series is also working quite well - I went with that for the smaller footprint. Since I mostly dock it, the smaller screen is acceptable for the limited amount of time I use it undocked.

I've got a P51. It's essentially always on fire and the fans are really loud.

Not sure I'd recommend it. Build quality is very good however.

P51S might have been a better choice then.

The P51S is "slim" and has poorer thermals than the P51. Why would it be a better choice?

It uses low-power components (U rather than H CPUs for example) and isn't capable of generating nearly as much heat, regardless of what you're asking it to do.

Switching from a core H to core U will cut your perf in half. I like my xps 13 but in all fairness it struggles to run Firefox with youtube+gmail+slack and Office open all at the same time. As someone who primarily uses beefy desktops, it feels about as snappy as a Core 2 Duo machines with DDR-400.

I sent my Lenovo in for warranty service for a faulty SSD ribbon cable and... they lost it. And they haven't replaced it. They've told me four times over the course of the last five months that I'll get a call in 3-5 business days. It has never come of course.

I know I'm not alone; even just in my circle there are two other stories of horrible mishaps with this company.

Lenovo makes some decent machines, sometimes, but their warranty service is not to be trusted.

Lenovo took around 100 days, within warranty period, to replace my motherboard of my Ideapad Y500 because the parts were not available. I am never buying any Lenovo product ever again.

I have always used their on-site service. Tech always comes out the next day and fixes the issue.

Big bonus of the proper "business" laptops also is support. Wouldn't want a work machine I rely on without on-site support anymore (of course ideally you want a machine that never needs support, but since you can't rely on that from anybody...)

Indeed. Worth looking at the Thinkpads with this as well. A lot of the 3 year old discarded corporate units still have a couple of years of warranty left on them and Lenovo actually honour it!

Interestingly, Apple covers more than sRGB, their panels are now being set to the broader DCI-P3 gamut. Whereas these laptops (at least in 2019) were slightly less than the sRGB gamut on testing. Except for the surface book,

https://imgur.com/a/6dGz3LO

I got these results from, https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-Prestige-15-A10SC-Laptop-R...

I got a 2019 Dell Precision 5540 with an UHD OLED, 3.840 x 2.160 and have 100% DCI-P3. And i think many other OLED Screens have it too.

When i configured the Laptop i could choose from these options:

FHD IGZO4, 1.920 x 1.080, 100% sRGB

UHD IGZO4, 3.840 x 2.160, 100% AdobeRGB Touch

UHD OLED, 3.840 x 2.160, 100% DCI-P3

Almost no displays get 100% when tested for gamut coverage. I'm not really sure why, I think it's some testing artefact. At this point (around 99% sRGB) what you should be looking at is coverage in larger gamuts (here 84.8% AdobeRGB).

> In the consumer world the Dell XPS [...] are the way to go for a designer

I have to use a Dell XPS 9560 and had two issues with it, most people never realize:

1. The Intel Thermal management driver is buggy so the device shuts off on very high-load tasks. You have to find the old driver on the internet and install it, and prevent windows from reverting to a new driver.

2. Only after two years of hanging connections and dropped UDP-packets I ran a speedtest and realized that this is not my home-internet being weird, but a systemic problem of the Wifi-card, which others have reported on the internet as well. Switched cards - getting windows to recognize the new one was difficult - and now I have normal Wifi.

Both of these issues are terrible for customers, and I still wish I wouldn't have ignored/overlooked the Wifi-issue for so long, as it interrupted work for a very long time.

Dell XPS 9360, good keyboard and touchpad, but my two issues, Dell software for updating drivers is just buggy. In general Dell can't write good consumer software.

Second is the same as yours, the Killer Wi-Fi is subpar. Can't keep a steady connection. Can trigger bluescreens if resuming without power cable and running Firefox (I think). Have not changed my Wi-Fi card yet.

I seriously recommend the switch. I went for an Intel ax200, costs about 50$, and my download speed went up 8 fold.

I got an XPS 15 7590 in part because I read that the "Killer" Wifi problems of old were finally fixed. Well not for me, after waking the laptop I have to manually disconnect and reconnect Wifi for it to work. Have not had time to contact support about it yet, but I'm very disappointed that they've stayed with "Killer Wifi" after the long history of problems.

I looked up the MSI Prestige and apparently there exist a limited edition of it that's completely pink, I mean really, really pink: https://www.msi.com/Business-Productivity/Prestige-14-A11X-P.... Not a big fan of the color, but it sure is interesting to see. I now wonder if the color would be a good deterrent for thieves.

I use MSI laptops almost exclusively although they're definitely wiped and reinstalled to win10 ltsc or freebsd.

In as much as I love the Mac touchpad for kanji/hanzi input the 2015 pro will probably be my last.

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