The daily lunch delivery of India's dabbawallahs | Hacker News Reader

The daily lunch delivery of India's dabbawallahs

37signals.com

143 pointsultrasaurus68 comments

Having grown up in Asia before moving to the West, I've always wondered why we accept such shoddy excuses for lunch around here. You've got limp, cold sandwiches, or reheated leftovers in tupperwares.

Or you spend a pretty dime on some nice, real food by eating out.

Where I grew up, lunchboxes are small, but elaborate - food is neatly compartmentalized like in the article, and just about every place has a steamer to heat it up without the use of microwaves (aka the dessicator).

I started bringing lunch to work recently. At home we can cook lunch that is cheaper, healther and tastier than most things I would get around where work. It is only a matter of making a little extra to have for the next day or make larger pot on the weekend.

However one thing that is lost is experience of eating together if you are the only one bringing lunch. We just talked about that recently and that it not be under-estimated as far as I am concerned. There is important gossip being discussed, and in general I chatting with coworkers about random (non-work related) stuff. Sometimes I would even eat my lunch then still decide to walk with them and walk back just for fun if the weather is nice.

What you're seeing is a low standard of living in action. There's enough surplus labor in India to deliver food from homes to offices everyday. You could do this in the US as well- but be prepared to pay however much labor and transportation costs.

Average productivity in the US is also much higher than in India (that's why wages are higher), but Americans are no more productive when delivering and preparing this kind/quality of food, so this is unaffordable and you have to settle for lower quality lunches (or be willing to pay more).

I wasn't talking about food delivery - where I grew up you packed your own lunches, but generally people had much better food for lunch than what you'd see in your average North American office. Employers/schools also took more care in providing the equipment/facilities to heat and cook lunches (far in excess of microwaves, anyhow).

It really speaks to a cultural difference - I feel that fast food culture has trained Americans to tolerate crappy food for lunch (or splurging on eating out). Lunch on a work day is not something to be savored, but rather something to be done with. IMHO there's something America can stand to learn here.

What is there to learn? There is no way I'm going to waste my time packing a box lunch regardless of what appliances the company provides to heat it up.

Its about priorities. Lunch/Food is something that impacts your health over time. I know time is a priority, but if you are not healthy nothing else matters.

A sick persons time hasn't much value.

It's not your fault. It's just the difference between the culture in which dining is an important experience and the culture where dining is merely a chore.

Your attitude is exactly the point. In many other countries, they _would_ spend their time packing a box lunch. As an American by birth, I didn't understand this either until I went abroad. At first, it was simply shocking how much time/effort went into food preparation/consumption. But over time, I came to appreciate (and missed upon my return) the much more nuanced approach taken to cuisine in some other countries.

In India, the male worker doesn't have to spend his time. It's the wife/mother that does it. Even if the woman works, it's assumed she'll cook 3 hot meals a day.

What you are seeing is minimum wage laws in action. They drive up unemployment during difficult times (recession) and should be lowered according to economic theory. But they aren't as its a sign of weakness. If the minimum wage was $2 an hour say, a vast number of currently unemployed workers would quickly find themselves with work to earn honest money, delivering you delicious home cooked meals.

> If the minimum wage was $2 an hour say, a vast number of currently unemployed workers would quickly find themselves with work to earn honest money, delivering you delicious home cooked meals.

Did you not read his comment at all? I don't see how else you could've missed this, as it was at the beginning of the first sentence:

> I wasn't talking about food delivery

What you're seeing is a lack of food culture. America just does not have good, healthy, delicious, food for the poor.

Interesting... or maybe it's the lack of processed food choices in other countries? Food providers/chains have not optimized for scale and price yet?

That's at least part of it. A lot of it is also time - the poor eat unhealthy foods due to a combination of cost (processed foods are cheaper) and time (fast food is faster). When you're holding down 2 jobs and juggling a couple of kids, it doesn't really leave a lot of room for a home cooked meal, even if you could purchase healthy ingredients cheaply.

I just got back from a two-week trip to Asia that's been fairly eye-opening for myself. There are a lot of small-scale catering services that fill this specific void: affordable, healthy (relatively, they're certainly winning no medals) food for busy people. I hate to say it, but the lack of regulation plays a lot into it. Because every housewife with some spare time can take on a few clients, it creates price competition like there's no tomorrow. Yes, it really does become caveat emptor (health inspections? hah!), but the lack of regulation does create more easily accessible, healthier eating.

Health inspectors say nothing about unhealthy junk food which kills you over months, just bacteria that can make you sick today. Compared to eating good Indian food, I'd say Mumbai's system works as well or better - trust Mother to treat you right.

I don't know about the whole asia, but processed food is very scanty in India. Most of the processed food is Jams, Ketchups etc. Which is hardly consumed by the poor.

But unlike the US its very easy to buy fresh stuff here.

Processed food is expensive in India. I had to shell out $6 for a small can of salsa dip.

Vegetables and fruits are cheaper in India than most western countries, but of much inferior quality,

I don't think that's true. Speaking of India, I can tell you since I'm from India... You can't possibly imagine the food crisis here. We are nation of people with millions of people not having access to even to meal even once a day. And that is not by option, but they simply have no way out.

We have farmers committing suicide almost everyday, there is no water or very scanty amounts of water in many parts of the country. Unlike the US where is there is proper planning and good infrastructure(Irrigation, equipment, fertilizers, information, equipment etc) for agriculture. Farmers here back in India are purely dependent upon rains(Monsoons) and ancient methods of planting seeds(using cows). The land is often passed on from generations to generation and undergoes division as a part of inheritance due to which most farmers never get a large chunck of land. Adding all this the farmer productivity is very low, there is no support from the government, no rains, no equipment etc etc. And Farmers really are very poor and not as productive as ones in US. And prior to this there was slavery sort of set up, where you give away your whole life for a land lord.

The country is very big, and there are too many people. The prices keep on rising. The middle class can't afford even grains and vegetables let alone meat and other stuff. The poor hardly get a meal a day. And few just eat a single roti(Indian flat bread) with salt for the whole day.

Compared to this the Americans are feasting everyday. AMERICANS ARE LUCKY, I repeat AMERICANS ARE LUCKY. You are lucky to be eating stomach full everyday, You are lucky to be worrying about iPhones and not hunger and diseases.

Be grateful to God and thankful. There are many places in the world where there aren't even the most basic necessities what you take for granted.

You are talking about prosperity not the food culture. Yes most Indians still may have hard time making their ends meet but launch and dinner are an important element of Indian culture. Launch time and dinner time are important parts of your daily schedule even if your day job is to plough your own fields.

You can say the same for numerous fast food workers.

Upscale food trucks are starting to fill in this gap for many US cities.

Yes, but the problem word is upscale if you're poor. Still a lack of good, healthy, delicious food for the poor (as someone above expressed it).

Having grown up in Sweden, I guess the answer is quite obvious to me: my mother isn't at my house (i.e., in my apartment) when I'm at the office, minding the house and cooking me lunch. In my case, my mother is at work, and of course we don't live in the same apartment anyway. That would be weird.

Note: I'm exaggerating a bit in an attempt to be illustrative.

First as mentioned Indian meals take time to cook and there is a strong emphasis on home cooked meals. There is social stigma involved in carrying the tiffin case back.

The workforce for the dhabbawallas is cheap and they live on a fairly low income. The way I understand it only a certain caste are dhabbawallas (correct me if I'm wrong).

Even though the number of deliveries is huge, the people being delivered earn considerably more than the dhabbawallas, they all have office jobs.

Having lived and experienced the Indian mechanism of things I am always impressed when this story resurfaces, but unfortunately knowing India I am very skeptical. They no doubt excel at what they do, but I would take the statistics with a grain of salt.

Ask yourself how it is possible to measure such performance?

The entire mechanism is so informal and excludes any 'reporting' (in the sense of data about efficiency) and is focused purely on delivery. I know a lot of "certified" companies in India that lack basic factory security, hygiene and protocols: they would fail a "real" certification.

I do not follow - isn't it all the more amazing that poorly paid, uneducated workers without proper salaries are able to achieve this?

I would measure their performance by inserting random 'canary tiffins' over a period and measuring their loss percentage. You could also track some individual carriers and get a similar measure to combine into the previous metric.

A lot of things emerging from India aren't what they appear to be (eg. The $35 tablet). However, this bit is true. It's slightly hard to believe, but the dabbawallahs have been elaborately studied and covered by lots of esteemed organizations and publications.

Btw, the dabbawallahs have a big admirer in Prince Charles.They were even invited to the Charles-Camilla wedding. http://www.mid-day.com/news/2011/apr/270411-dabbawallas-mumb...

>>The workforce for the dhabbawallas is cheap and they live on a fairly low income. The way I understand it only a certain caste are dhabbawallas (correct me if I'm wrong).

You need to understand the way this system works. In India the smaller cities and towns have virtually no opportunities if you want to financially well off. There fore the metros are flocked.

When such a large population of people gather at a city. There are huge opportunities for anything and everything. Tiffin delivery system is one such opportunity. You will see many other things in India. Roadside Coffee, tea and cigarette vendors. In the US you people buy everything in super markets. But here vegetables are sold by people who wander street by street selling vegetables on push carts. Heck there is even a market for people who take care of your slippers when you leave them behind while entering a temple/mosque.

Even though what they earn is very meager and may be nothing. But at least they have some means through which they can fill their stomachs. So dabbawallah's may be earning purely on basis of volumes alone.

The "high end tiffin set" linked from the article costs $85. You could probably buy it for under $20 at your local Indian grocery store. If you are in a large city it's quite likely within 10 miles of where you live/work.

are all tiffin sets metal? i'm pretty sure i've seen similar concept bento box stacks that are plastic.

Yeah I almost clicked buy until I thought "How will I reheat these, microwaves will not like these!"

So now do you understand why tiffin boxes are made of metal. Not that microwaves can't work with plastics or all sorts of plastics.

But because most people in India can't afford to buy a microwave at the first place.

We have plastic bowls for use in my office, and a micro. As do most of the other offices - I am in Mumbai, and a micro isn't that hard to afford for the middle class and many firms.

That said, there are a lot of other people who eat their food cold. This is India, so for whatever N=true, N'=true

Near the villages and country side most of it metal. Most due to high durability.

But in Metro's Plastic is pretty famous and is widely used. Its in our culture to carry tasty food cooked by moms to schools/offices. But it seems like that culture is changing big time. McDonalds et al, have started offering good enough meals for 40 rupees onwards(less than $1 approx).

Having said that, 40 rupees very unaffordable for a lunch meal. Even for a software engineer. Dining in all these McDonalds sort of restaurants is considered as for rich people.

Most are, due to the limited availability of microwaves in India, although this has changed in urban centers now and I have seen microwave safe plastic ones as well. Generally you (or your chef!) would pack the food hot in these metal containers and then place the entire tiffin inside an insulated vacuum flask like container so that it stays warm till it reaches you.

Here's an Indian site that is selling a microwave safe tiffin set with a built in heating mechanism for under $10. I just googled for it, so I can't vouch for the quality though. http://www.rdsons.com/prods/kitchen_apps/elictrik_tiffin.htm...

Also, it looks like Amazon has some decent ones in the ~$25 range.

Does anyone else think it's ironic that a company called "Design Within Reach" sells tiffins for $85, which even in America could be had for $20. (And in India, perhaps $10-15)

I been to that store, it's a high end furniture store. Nothing there is 'within reach' for most people, or particularly good value.

> (And in India, perhaps $10-15)

More like $4-10, depending on the quality.

The point of Design Within Reach is not to sell well-designed products at low prices, but to sell well-designed products (mainly furniture) that would otherwise be impossible to buy through normal retail channels. "Within reach" refers to availability, not affordability.

It is things like this, why I love capitalism.

Not getting into a political debate, but which other economic system known to man, could allow a system to be created that is more efficient than better capitalized rivals (read FedEx, UPS, DHL) and all packages delivered by people that are illiterate.

I think it is easy to underestimate the logistical challenges of delivering food to 175,000 people all over a city when you have never tried it.

As someone that has worked with a friend try to coordinate lunch orders for just 100 - 200 clients (including buying enough ingredients so there isn't waste, to collecting all orders in time, to delivering lunches on time), let me assure this is no easy feat.

The most ironic thing though is that I think that if you were to plot a graph between the number of customers you have and how easy it is, I think you would see that it initially starts a in dip (i.e. delivering and serving lunch for 1 - 10 people is relatively easy, but as you go up to say 500 people complexity blows up and efficiency - on every scale - plummets) and then after you reach some local maxima (when you are able to afford more people and better systems from the revenues) efficiency starts to pick up again and the graph goes up and to the right.

God bless the free market - wherever it is!

These guys only DELIVER pre-packed lunch boxes. Somebody in the lunch-eaters' HOUSE makes the food and it's picked up from there and delivered to the lunch-eater. This is not a catering service (hence the part of of your comment about procuring food doesn't apply).

Errr....that makes it even more impressive.

Because not only do they have to get lunch to 175,000 people, they also have to pick it up!

You are right, I glossed over that fact.

I was just using my experience as a vague point of reference for how complicated such a business is - even though on the outside it seems like it might be simple.

> Errr....that makes it even more impressive.

It is the opposite for me. How bad would it have to get for me to run around in the rain on a bicycle to deliver someone's home-cooked lunch to their office? Pretty bad. I would have to be pretty deep in poverty before I would start considering that. I guess one person looks at this as the triumph of free enterprise, another looks at it as how desperate the situation can get for some. If it is the only job they can get and they have hungry children at home, you bet they will get that 6 sigmas of reliability...

Hrmm...isn't that how the free-market works? It is precisely because you have no alternatives why you choose the work you do.

If you can be a surgeon, you will be. If you can't, you won't.

But whatever you decide to do, you can excel at it and move up as needs be (in most free societies anyway).

You don't need to do this, so you wouldn't be their ideal delivery man. If you were, you would probably lose a few lunches and that would damage their reliability....which hurts their system and company.

So the free market has priced you out of that job - because you wouldn't likely work for the pittance these guys earn.

All of that being said, if these guys save and start to do other things, they too can eventually move up and possibly even start their own company that allows their past employer to outsource some functions to them!

That might not happen, but nothing is really stopping them (cultural nuances aside, like caste, etc.) aside from good old fashioned drive and hard work.

Edit: Plus you are missing the point. I am not saying that those delivery men are what is impressive. What is impressive is whoever put the system together that allows them to have the six sigma reliability when they are depending on thousands of illiterate men. That! is impressive....in my humble opinion.

You can say the same thing about flipping burgers at McDonald's, or dealing with annoying customers at Sears.

The service industry is an unenviable place to be in, no matter where you are. I don't particularly buy that being in the "delivering lunches in the rain" business is a good indicator of particularly disturbing poverty.

Not exactly, there is difference between offering quality of service out of professionalism and offering quality of service out of the fear that if you don't some body else will and take away your job.

And if you lose your job you have no other option but to starve(With your family and kids). Its a little bit to imagine this in the US, partly because you haven't even the outside idea what sort of poverty is there here in India.

They are not the same. And that sort of desperation can't be felt unless you are in that situation.

Which city are you from? Would like to buy you a coffee if you are in Delhi NCR.

If that is the case, why do they have to bring the empty container back? Why couldn't the person bring it home to their own house?

I understand why you would get it delivered so it is hotter/fresher... but not the return

perhaps its expected as an extra convenience?

[edit: watched the video he says that its very hard to carry things and board trains in mumbai, thus worth it to have the tiffin returned home as well]

There is a social stigma against carrying your own food.

But Shahrukh Khan carries his plastic tiffin packed by Anushka Sharma to work in Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi and his coworkers are in awe!

That scene is from a small Punjabi town. It is difficult to carry lunch boxes in Mumbai's local trains.

This is partially true. The stigma is not so much against carrying your own food, as it's against carrying the particular type of tiffin box that is shown in this video. They are quite large and bulky. Imagine, a guy in a suit, with an Attache in one hand, and the bulky tiffin box in the other. Also, if you commute by Mumbai's local trains, it will be a nightmare to board them with the boxes. Here's a snap taken inside a typical coach: http://www.mumbai77.com/Pictures/Gallery/displayimage.php?al...

The person doesn't cook their own food. Its done by women who subcontract the job.

Travel in the Mumbai local once and you will know why. You may probably even feel wearing clothes is a burden.

And this isn't the case only during peak hours, this is the situation 24x7.

Fedex and UPS would likely reach similar levels of efficiency if they picked up from and delivered to the same locations every day. The dabba wallahs would likely have a lot more errors if you wanted lunch on Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday on the last week of the month and lunch on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday on the other weeks. Or, for that matter, only on demand when you call that morning to arrange a pickup.

Also some of the comments in the article mention that one of the keys to their success is getting rid of bad customers. Is the customer always several minutes late in having the meal ready to transport when they go to pick it up? If so, they're holding up the line... require that it be prepared on-time or stop transporting their meals.

Except that Fedex and UPS will never be able to beat that price. For a simple reason Fedex and UPS do it for profit and Dabbawallah's do it for poverty.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/CaseStudy...

(shoddy design of ppt, you have been warned!) Page 10 onwards, their system is described briefly.

Another study published by IIM Ahmedabad. http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/publications/data/2005-09-01ravic...

HBR's case study from last year, for those who want a paid article: http://hbr.org/product/the-dabbawala-system-on-time-delivery...

Yet another case study: (paid article) http://cases.ivey.uwo.ca/cases/pages/home.aspx?Mode=showprod...

A similar one, comparing NYC. http://etidweb.tamu.edu/classes/idis344/Is%20IT%20a%20necess...

Mumbai dabbawallahs are pretty cool in their methods! (dabba = box, wallah = suffix, that says person)

NYT wrote a pretty good article a while ago on these guys: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/29/business/worldbusiness/29l...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N25inoCea24 youtube video of a TED talk by the president of Mumbai Dabbawala Education Centre. Closed captioning would have helped non-indian viewers, this commentary on the video might help http://www.hindu.com/mp/2011/03/14/stories/2011031451160400....

Definitely fascinating. Don't forget, however, that many of these Mumbai dabbawallahs live a precarious existence.

Perhaps the fear of homelessness and hunger encourage the high success rate. This is not a model I'd like to replicate in my own business.

Yeah, the last thing you want to do is give poor people opportunity.

I am sure some techies are thinking "I can write software to optimize this system and increase their revenue/profit. I will not charge them for the software, and will make money from the money they save.....". Just ensure your software can guarantee an accuracy rate close to theirs.

I bet they are employing mobile phones now.

That is already there from a long time. Mobile phone charges have become dirt cheap. Sometimes free calls to some 10 numbers, billed per second(1ps per second).

There are pre paid cards. For even 25 rupees(25 cents). You can even avail internet access for a day! From some carriers. I hope you are getting a glimpse of how messy the market is here.

I totally remember seeing these dudes when I visited India. Dabbawallah roughly translates to "box guy" (or in context, "lunchbox guy"). They also have these guys called subgiewallahs who are basically walking farmers markets...

I'm reading "The Starfish and the Spider" right now, though I'm early into the book, this system fascinates me. I find the illiteracy which both videos touched on equally fascinating as the system evolved around the workers' abilities rather than finding workers able to fit the system.

Fascinating article and videos. Thanks for sharing.

Chaotic yet organized systems like this fascinate me.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com