Ask HN: PhD vs. job @Google vs. starting a startup | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: PhD vs. job @Google vs. starting a startup

14 pointstanonaway19 comments

In a few months, I will be finishing up my master's degree in computer engineering from a fairly well-considered European university, and I am finding it hard to decide what to do after that.

At some point in my life, I want to found a startup, but I don't know if this is the right time for me. The main thing stopping me from founding one right now is that I don't feel at the edge of some field; I don't feel like "I'm living in the future," like a good startup founder should[1]. Side note: thank you YC for the amazing curriculum you put together in Startup School for Future Founders[2].

As the title suggests, I have three possible paths that I would be equally interested in following:

  - Ph.D.:
    - Pros:
      - This seems the best option to get at the edge of some technology;
    - getting paid to study what I am most interested in sounds great;
    - Cons:
      - Academic bureaucracy;
      - I might be forced to write more papers than I want to.
  - Google: this summer I interned here and got a conversion offer.
    - Pro: If I get picked by the right team I might learn a lot of interesting stuff and get at the edge of some technology.
    - Con: "[...]getting a normal job may actually make you less able to start a startup, by turning you into a tame animal who thinks he needs an office to work in and a product manager to tell him what software to write."[3]
  - Starting a startup: "So now I'd advise people to go ahead and start startups right out of college. There's no better time to take risks than when you're young. Sure, you'll probably fail. But even failure will get you to the ultimate goal faster than getting a job."[3]

Startup founders, what would you have done if right after finishing university you had these options?

  1: http://www.paulgraham.com/before.html
  2: https://www.startupschool.org/future-founders
  3: http://www.paulgraham.com/notnot.html

From someone married to a PhD, I suggest the Google route. With the PhD you'll likely be more distanced from what truly interests you (the topic is essentially a negotiation between you and faculty) and what may continue to be relevant in the coming years. It will also turn into quite a slog by the end of it, as it's almost designed intentionally to put you through the wringer. Many people come out being disillusioned. This may vary with your chosen college / subject area though.

Taking a job at Google would expose you to the right type of environment, with lots of internal opportunities. It would also look great on your CV and be a springboard to other opportunities outside GOOG.

The startup thing could work, assuming you have the right combination of skills, business idea, commitment to make it happen, and know a few others who could join forces. Bit more risk with this one, but obviously a bigger payoff.

Did all three (phd -> google -> startup). Couple of misnomers you might want to clear up:

* depending on your area, a PhD may not touch much "technology", if any at all. There will be a lot of writing, a lot of reading, a lot of math, and a lot of hard conference/journal rejections that you put 6+ months into apiece. And that's if you can land a fully funded position. You will have to teach, and skimp on niceties and luxuries, and "just barely get by" on a stipend. If you're not deeply motivated by the learning and willing to endure a monk-like existence, do not take this path.

* if you have a Google offer, especially as an intern conversion, TAKE IT. You will have access to the true cutting edge in technology (certainly way more than 99.9% of academic labs). You will learn rigor, elegance in code, how to critique and take criticism, and how to build truly scalable systems. It is very much like an "industry PhD"...it will change the way you think.

* you will still be "young" after a few years at Google, but you will be immensely more technically mature. If you do a startup now and burn out in 2-3 years, that Google interview will be immensely more daunting, and you might not be able to swing it. You'll also have a couple of years of RSUs saved up to tide you through the rough startup moments.

TL;DR--Google.

> If you're not deeply motivated by the learning and willing to endure a monk-like existence, do not take this path.

Hahaha, YMMV but this is brilliant and looks pretty accurate for most programs in the US.

Finished my PhD a year ago. Do it _only_ if you want to do research and you love the area you are pursuing. It is a _lot_ of hard, lonely work and the monetary upside is no where near that of a startup or a Google job. Finally, the PhD varies a lot from school to school and from professor to professor even within a given school. If you do choose this route, choose the professor wisely.

If I were you, I would try to get into one of the research areas of Google (if the team matching process has not happened already), e.g. Google Brain, they tend to have year-long fellowships. That way, you can experience research without the long term commitment. If it turns out you really like it, then your mentors at Google can give you a sense of whether going back to academia is a good plan or not.

If you have not worked full-time for at least a year before, then I would take the Google offer regardless of whether it is a research area or not. No one should go to a PhD without first experiencing industry first.

My summary:

PhD: No.

Google Job: Yes if you can get it starting out.

Startup: May be in a couple of years after getting some industry experience. Contrary to what people may say, it is extremely tough to just found a startup when you have no experience, connections, vision or even idea of what you would want to do. If you have the vision, connections, experience etc, sure go for it but most likely you don't.

It depends on what you want to achieve, and who you are.

Do a PhD if you love research, and have a good safety net e.g. middle class family who'd support you in an emergency or savings to cover several years' living costs. Have an exit plan - are you planning to go on the postdoc treadmill afterwards?

Go for the BigCo if you're unsure what to do. You'll build your CV, make good money, and learn whether it suits you well.

IMO only go for the start-up if you've got a specific opportunity in mind that you're in love with. Almost all start-ups fail, and sadly it's harder to spin those failures into something positive on a CV.

I think it really depends on your specific circumstances, current interests, etc. There have been successful people who went through any order/combination of your three options.

There have been highly successful founders who dropped out of university, others who became founders after doing PhDs, someone like Martin Kleppmann who became an academic after selling a few successful businesses, etc.

I'd suggest doing whichever of three peaks your interest most at this stage.

Echoing another user, Google hands down. Even if you're there for just a little bit, having the Google name on your resume will open lots of doors later on.

I think the PhD is the only one that either you do it now or never. So, if you’re interested, I’d go for that.

Google will send you email offers for the rest of your life, so I’d keep it last in my list. You can also replace Google with many other co.

Startup I don’t recommend starting one unless you have a problem to solve and money. PhD can help you work on some good tech, but don’t forget about a good problem. Google can help you with money, but again you have many other options.

A PhD isn’t a “now or never” thing either- it’s difficult to imagine that a year or two at Google would make the poster a less desirable candidate.

I have a Ph.D. It has continued to open doors for 30+ years after graduation and has allowed considerable flexibility in my career - I have taken breaks and returned and been welcomed, several times. In 10 years time, having worked at google, you will just be another guy who worked at google. Wouldn’t you prefer to be a Ph.D. who also worked at google? Also: choose your supervisor very carefully. Spend time talking to his/her graduate students. The right supervisor makes all the difference in the world.

A co-worker did a PhD when he was 60+.

Google is extremely overrated. Everyone here saying its the end all be all probably hasnt worked there. I mean this from an interesting work perspective.

Only join a startup if you are a founder, or the founders are extremely notable and you are early.

Probably do Google for two years, then start a company while working there

> Probably do Google for two years, then start a company while working there

I second this. Google still has a good engineering culture and you’ll learn a lot. Two years is a good amount of time to soak up the good stuff that will be valuable when you start your own company.

If you have a problem to solve and the grit to execute/endure, go the startup route. Do not do this if you’re content to shoot an arrow into a wall and paint a target around it. You can do that at Google.

You mentioned studying in Europe. Are you going to be based there? If that's the case, the Google offer looks far less attractive - neither the salary or opportunities that you'll have will be that exceptional.

Most likely, but I think the compensation will still be competitive; CoL in Europe is lower than in the U.S., I also think that generally QoL is higher in Europe. On the opportunities side, I agree, luck plays a significant role here.

If you want to maximize EV of money, take the big N job (Google, Facebook, etc). PhDs and startups can have big gains but they're not the average case, only the edge cases make a lot of money.

Google, hands down.

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