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Comment by TechBro8615 | Hacker News Reader

Straw poll: I need a new development machine, price is not an object but it has to be a Mac. Should I buy this new M1 or go with the Intel 16 inch MBP?

My gut says there’s going to be a year or two of cross-compilation nightmares. I do a lot of Docker-based development. Wondering what everyone else thinks?

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I sometimes wonder what the overhead of Docker costs on a Mac. The fact that you have to run a whole linux VM, with guest OS, then send data back and forth over that, especially with volume mapping. I'm sure it can be quantified over running linux directly on the same hardware.

My machine (MacBook Pro 13-inch, 2018, 2.7 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7, 16 GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3) often runs screaming hot (with screaming fans too), when I only have a browser, zoom, docker and IntelliJ running, and I wonder what went wrong.

Yeah, it’s pretty crazy especially when you’ve got a bunch of bind mounts. My current machine is a 2013 MBA and after cumulative 100+ hours of fighting with docker over the years, I finally gave up and started using remote development in VSCode on a Linux server. That was a great decision.

Last time I tried that the network file serving was a bottleneck. But I guess there comes a point where you have to choose your bottleneck.

VSC is the real workhorse here. It’s way beyond something like an SSHFS mount. The server actually runs an instance of VSC. It’s really quite good and I don’t even notice I’m editing on another machine. Would recommend trying it.

Thanks, today I learned something. I'll try it out.

All the more disappointing that Jetbrains won't support a language server beyond Intellij.

Yeah, Docker is an issue for me as well. Great idea! Thanks! Care to share any more details? Who is hosting what configuration?

Just google VSCode Remote Development. It’s very easy to setup. I personally use a Scaleway machine.

Glad to hear this has gone well. My current plan is to stick a Linux workstation under my desk and then use my MacBook for remote vscode.

Have you tried Turbo Boost Switcher?

It does wonders for my 2019 16 MBP, ensuring the fans very rarely kick in and CPU temps stay reasonable doing similar workloads to what you describe.

The memory approaches the limit and MacOS starts to compress it which is CPU intensive. Try to limit RAM for Docker VM.

> I sometimes wonder what the overhead of Docker costs on a Mac.

I wouldn't use Docker on a Mac. The fan goes like crazy the whole time, and the battery life is like an hour or less. Whereas with vagrant and virtualbox the fan stays off and the battery lasts all day.

Go for the 16 inch. I’ve upgraded from my 2015 model (couldn’t stand the butterfly keys) and the wait was worth it! Great keyboard, physical escape key, 16 threads, large screen - great machine. It took them 5 years to get there so don’t get your hopes up for this new one ;-)

Yeah, I think that’s what I’ll do. Although the 16” is bigger than I need; I wish they kept the 13” Intel lineup available.

There are still some MBP-13 Intels (i5) with 4 Thunderbolt ports + more RAM still available I think?

Hm... not that I can find on their online store.

There for me on both US + NZ stores:

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch

scroll down to second row...

Oh! I totally missed that :) thanks!

I wish they kept the 13” Intel lineup available.

They did. They're right there in the store below the M1 models. Just scroll a little bit.

As with anything brand new - wait for the 2nd version of it, especially if you are a power user.

For such workflow 16gb is not enough. Docker on Mac is a VM and you need to have a lot of ram for disc caching to compensate for slow IO in VM even if 16GB looks like they could do it.

Get the Apple Silicon. If it doesn't meet your expectations, return it and get the Intel one. Returns are trivial with Apple if within 2 weeks (might be longer now with covid).

Oh really? That’s good to know. Thanks!

Orders from Apple Online are currently return eligible through January 8

This is terrible advice, with new launches like this there's always a ton of compatibilities issues and you don't want to spend ages getting the device setup to realise some specific software that you must use isn't supported or sit around waiting for updates to support the new system.

Why not just wait a few weeks post release to get a reviewers take on using the new device as a development machine?

To be honest. You should wait a few weeks for all the expected reviews which will not only perform performance comparisons but highlight what software works that which does not

Should I buy this new M1 or go with the Intel 16 inch MBP?

IMO, it depends on how long you're going to keep your computer.

If you're the sort of person who keeps using the same computer for eight or nine years, you don't want to end up on the old chips when all the software has migrated years earlier.

Imagine still running a PowerMac in 2010.

I was ready to buy an M1 model, but the deal breaker for me is the screen. I use a 2011 Air. An 11" screen was fine a decade ago, but my eyes aren't what they used to be, and I don't think 13" is going to cut it. When a 15" or 16" option becomes available, I'm there.

I'd say the 16, but with a caveat. By itself it is a great machine. In clamshell mode with an external 4k screen it is a great machine. With the laptop screen open connected to an external 4k screen it is EXTREMELY noisy and hot.

~173 pages of complaints on Macrumors here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an...

What difference does having it closed make? I keep my on a stand but open just for slack really. It does make a hell of a racket when I’ve got a lot of containers running.

In clamshell mode it only has to drive one display, so it demands a lower baseline of memory, CPU, GPU, ...

Is the reality of the 4k era that if you want dual monitors and peformance that you have to go back to 1080p monitors? Looks like I'll be holding onto my $100 dell screens for a while yet.

> but it has to be a Mac.

Bummer. I just paid $3200 for a lower end Lenovo P620 (only 12 cores), and similarly spec'd Apple machines were running almost $8k, and benchmarks say the Macs are technically slower. These were desktop workstations, though.

I know it doesn't help your decision, but I'm still excited about the new computer

Can you run docker and virtualisation software on these? I read a comment about Federighi mentioning that there's no EFI or dual boot, which I can't find now, and I assumed there's no virtualisation at all.

There’s ARM virtualization.

Get a macbook air and use docker on a remote linux box?

At work we use a big ass linux vm to connect to (running docker, etc.). Saves a lot of battery power, and no macos-docker shenanigans.

With Rosetta a lot of x86_64 programs actually do work, and the porting to arm64 is not _that_ bad. Besides you get all iPhone/iPad apps :)

For development, definitely the Intel. Most Macs in use would be Intel Macs for a while.

If you need something new yea I'd go with the Intel MBP right now.

Honestly the new MBP seems dead on arrival if only because of the RAM limitation.

This is just the first SKU, no need to be dramatic about it.

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