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Comment by Broken_Hippo | Hacker News Reader

It isn't enough. Legalisation needs to happen, even for things I wouldn't touch.

It isn't just about breaking a cycle, though not shaming addiction is helpful. It isn't just addicts that do drugs: I've met folks that do cocaine twice a year, for example. Few folks are addicted to LSD, and most folks only take MDMA occasionally. There is more than one way to take heroin, and folks do use occasionally. All drugs I wouldn't take are safer if folks know they are getting, strength and purity are verified as much as possible.

Legalisation takes some strength away from cartels, which hopefully means less human trafficking.

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Last sentence is especially valid - decriminalization does absolutely 0 with organized crime earning tens of billions every year from all addictives. The same folks that deal in kidnappings, ransom, contract killing, weapons smuggling and many more.

As a bonus health of patients(addicts) is not deteriorating so rapidly due to crap they take along with actual drugs, so bonuses go back to whole society in form of lower costs of general healthcare. Imagine cigarettes that would be killing 10x more slowly/less often. Smokers would often die of old age and not in 1-5 years of super expensive agony. Safer methods of applications can be used.

The benefits just mount for whole society. All it takes is general acceptance that there will always be some part of society that will want to get high / calm the existential pain, be it physical of psychical.

> Last sentence is especially valid - decriminalization does absolutely 0 with organized crime earning tens of billions every year from all addictives. The same folks that deal in kidnappings, ransom, contract killing, weapons smuggling and many more.

Surely decriminalization is an improvement.

Sure, it is definitely an improvement and will improve lives greatly. But that still leaves work to do: It should be treated as a stepping stone instead of the end goal because legalization does so much more.

For this reason, I try to bring it up in conversations about decriminalization.

Yes, “an improvement.” Is a pretty low bar.

Would “drug courts,” where offenders are not prosecuted provided they complete treatment not also be an improvement?

How do you expect it to have an impact on those things? It will be an improvement for drug users in the US, but I doubt much will change for the cartels. To really have an impact the drugs need to be produced and distributed legally.

As long as it is more profitable to sell drugs illegally they will continually be sold and trafficked illegally no matter the letter of the law. Even marijuana is grown and trafficked by the cartel in CA, because of the onerous licensing process and the heavy taxation imposed by the state and local governments make it more profitable to operate on the black market.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-10-28/aguanga-...

To a point, sure: Tobacco and alcohol are still sold illegally. But most folks buy it from the stores, and if they aren't, adjustments need to be made. Taxation isn't generally the issue (as alcohol & tobacco are taxed) as long as it is easy to purchase and reasonably priced.

The other issue is that there are conflicts between state and federal law. Not being able to bank easily is a major hurdle, and these sorts of things need fixed.

And that's the caveat. The black market still outweighs the legal market because it is difficult to purchase because of the difficulty in opening a legitimate dispensary, and it isn't reasonably priced with a 30% upcharge for taxes. right off the bat the illegal dispensary is 30% cheaper, and that makes a bigger difference in the MJ market where the base cost of the product is much higher than for a $16 bottle of liquor. Even with alcohol and tobacco it is very typical for people living near a state border to buy their product on the side with the more favorable taxes, routinely done even.

It takes time for each successive group of new users to come to market where they weren’t exposed to the black market in the first place, who are averse to unknown quality of the black market

Unless you take the time to look up the license on the state website, there isn't much of a tell that the brick and mortar dispensary, or delivery service dispensary, is operating illegally. Still the same strange security process getting into the building as in a legitimate dispensary, still the same process of getting delivery (sometimes with nice web design to boot) so it certainly passes the smell test. Happen into one of these, and the prices alone will keep you going there rather than a legal dispensary down the road. Not to mention the packaging requirements of legal dispensaries—ask for an oz and you get handed 8 bags in some very annoying 'child proof' ziplocks (I opt to just cut them open with scissors) since they seemingly can't sell larger units than 1/8 oz or 100mg of edibles per package.

When WA legalized weed, prices went down. I don't think you can make broad claims based on one particular implementation that may well be flawed in details.

Well I dont get why we dont get the cartels to become legal entreprises. Even gradually. We should even make deals with them today. Say: reduce death rate by 10% and we give you this and that.

> There is more than one way to take heroin, and folks do use occasionally.

My anecdata contradicts this.

I know a lot of musicians who say "Yeah, they lied to us about pot. So, I assumed they were lying about everything else, too. And they were--except heroin. Do NOT do heroin--that's a path you do not want to be on."

I don't know of any who use it "recreationally" and control it. It just doesn't seem to work that way.

> All drugs I wouldn't take are safer if folks know they are getting, strength and purity are verified as much as possible.

I agree with this 100%.

https://life.spectator.co.uk/articles/the-case-for-prescript...

Ok, this might not really contradict you since it is more about being able to use it regularly and still be functional.

Prices will compete with black market prices. Black market for weed in California is still a thing because it is much cheaper.

Edit: someone already mentioned it and provided evidence.

Wouldn’t there be more human trafficking as the underworld would need to make up for lost revenue from drugs?

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