Comment by tgb | Hacker News Reader

Comment by tgb | Hacker News Reader

My boss got excited about this a few weeks back, but none of the rest of the office wanted to really use it (and we had some issues with video/audio feeds). I don't really get the idea: what problem does this solve that Slack/Zoom/etc don't? The whiteboard seems OK but no software can solve the problem that drawing with a touchpad sucks. Am I going to have to schedule meeting rooms again? Forget finding the right Zoom link, I now have to find the right room too? Stand around the water cooler when I'm on a break, except that then I won't be at my computer and so I can't actually use that? It's easy to talk to coworkers, but Slack is even easier. It's easy to start a meeting, but Zoom is no harder - and easier for people outside your organization. "How's the cafeteria?" is what one of my coworkers asked, jokingly, but I think that captures my feeling of it. Sure it's got a cafeteria, but that cafeteria doesn't solve any of the problems that a real cafeteria solves.

Then again, I'm also of the opinion that video calls provide little value beyond phone calls, so maybe I'm just a grump.

A big benefit, especially with more people, is that it's relatively painless and socially natural to break out into multiple small discussions (as might happen at say, a coffee meeting irl). The awkwardness of 12-person video calls is extremely painful in other software.

What our office spaces recreate are all the interactions you would get throughout the day, that are not just scheduled meetings. Our team uses it to work alongside each other, and you can easily drop by someone's desk to ask a quick question or talk as you're walking out of a meeting. After work, you might notice a group playing games in our arcade and join them.

You can see what our own office looks like here: https://staging.gather.town/app/oxrhEtb3sV7VutbQ/GatherOffic...

The problem that we've heard a bunch is that people feel disconnected from their coworkers, because you don't really get to interact with them socially anymore. Would love to get your thoughts--do you not feel like you have this problem, or do you think gather.town doesn't solve this?

I think this is more geared towards orgs that are not really remote. They're just replicating the office environment online.

In order for this to work I'd have to work all day with a camera on my face, if I understood this correctly. This sounds awful to me.

I do think this would be really cool/fun for events, but for day-to-day work, I'd absolutely hate it.

> In order for this to work I'd have to work all day with a camera on my face, if I understood this correctly. This sounds awful to me.

Yeah I wasn't sure, is that what they're suggesting as the use-case? Always-on video and mic sounds awful, even if most of the time no one sees it. My home is not my office, my "home office" is just a desk in my living room and I share this space. So opening a window to my home is, frankly, unwelcome.

One of the most important features here for work is actually explicitly not doing always-on camera/mic. We have a setting that makes it so that when you're not looking at the tab, no one can see/hear you, but other people can come up to you and "tap on your shoulder". If you do decide to engage with them, it's super frictionless.

Tangenetially related, but check out Kaptivo Solo. It's (currently) free and does a great job of enhancing video of you writing a real physical whiteboard so it can actually be read on video calls. Of course, this requires you to have a physical whiteboard, but since I'm attending a lot of meetings in my office, I am fortunate to have one opposite my desk and it works great.

https://support.kaptivo.com/hc/en-us/categories/360001386698...

Look at the pricing model, this doesn't look like it's trying to replace any of those things.

It looks like you'd rent it out for an event or such. I can see that it would be a bit of a fun - if we're all on video / phone chats all day & we need to do a 'virtual offsite' it would be good to change the environment a little.

I can see this being useful for the occasional planning day etc.

I have no idea why they highlight the $2/user/8 hours when they also offer $7/user/month. The latter makes it clear that you could use this all day, every day.

Ah, good point. This is an artifact of the 8-hour block pricing being the first pricing we ever offered, but monthly is definitely more what we're focusing on.

If you read the founders comment, they mention a lot of other use cases in addition to offices/work.

I would probably really dislike using this with coworkers or for "in the office." But I can imagine it being a good fit with some of the other, more social use cases.

Yeah other uses seem more plausible. My boss wanted to use it as a virtual office, where he sits at his desk and us at our cubicles, that kind of thing.

Could you elaborate more on why you would dislike using this to be "in the office"? Thanks for the feedback, this is very helpful.

I had to think about it a bit, but I think in the end it's probably due to a couple bad experiences at startups. There's a lot of toxic, authoritarian company cultures out there that hide behind the idea that in order to be a good coworker you need to upbeat, peppy, and thrilled to be working at all times. It seems to go hand in hand with the (usually toxic and exploitative) work hard/play hard mentality.

If I were required to use this at work, I would instantly view it as a yellow/red flag that management is starting to get heavy handed about team culture, and I would probably start resenting it.

My ideal company culture is pretty minimal at this point: friendly people, a healthy work/life balance, and coworkers who are open to/good at learning - because that's what I strive for myself.

I'm probably coming off as a curmudgeon, and like I said maybe it's just due to some bad associations that come to mind, but this seems like it's starting down the path of "look how much fun our employees have at work!" My $.02.

That being said I wish you luck, and it seems like a neat option for more social settings.

I second this, if you’re looking for feedback specifically on why it may not be welcome “in the office”

That being said, I love the concept and think it can make for some interesting online social events!

Thanks for the really thoughtful feedback. I definitely hear this, and I think it would be crazy for us to think that we can build a single tool that will be useful across all ranges of team dynamics and culture.

FWIW, just like how companies can have different cultures around their physical spaces, they could have different practices/expectations set around the virtual space. For example, if there is now an expectation for people to be in the Gather office all the time, that seems like an issue with the company (and you could expect them to do other unpleasant things like, expect you to respond to Slack messages at 10 PM).

Another q would be: under the current paradigm, are you enjoying work from home more than physical offices? One of our goals here is to replicate the physical ones, so maybe this is just not directionally correct for you.

I also admit that I haven't had any of the particular experiences mention, so maybe I'm talking out of my sphere of knowledge here.

>FWIW, just like how companies can have different cultures around their physical spaces, they could have different practices/expectations set around the virtual space.

That's true, and it's not like I would quit my job if my team started using this, so maybe I would come around and appreciate it more. But initial gut reaction brings negative thoughts.

>Another q would be: under the current paradigm, are you enjoying work from home more than physical offices?

There are pros and cons for sure. I actually just transferred to a wfh permanent employee (although last time I was in an office was April), which I see as a net positive mostly due to how much time I save not commuting.

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