Toyota president: Tesla has 'not created a real business in the real world yet'

I hope Toyota wins this. They have sound manufacturing principles and have demonstrated them for decades and caused radical shifts in the way cars are made across the world — including in the US and in Europe. Much of what Western carmakers learned from them is articulated in the exceptional book "The Machine That Changed the World" — which Musk has almost certainly read, despite being written in 1990 (there are clear sections that seem to incredibly presciently predict Tesla's strategy — exceptional entertainment value in the car, self-driving capabilities, and electric engines).

Toyota employs far more people, produces cars that are incredibly low-key yet functional, and is backed by robust teams that work incredibly well together, as opposed to Tesla, which is generally functioning okay, but operates largely at the whims of Musk, much as Ford did back in the day. Which works for a while, but is not a sustainable mode for innovation. Apple is a semi-notable exception to this rule, of course, so we'll see what happens. But again, rooting for Toyota.

Tesla's business is not just selling cars; it's their mission to "accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy". That is why they're successful. That's why they invest in R&D for battery tech, solar panels, software. It's all about the mission, in the end.

Tesla made the electric car desirable to the masses. That is no small feat. Toyota could have done it years or even decades ago, but they didn't. Other traditional car makers could have done it, but chose not to.

Now they're all on a race to compete against Tesla.

But ultimately, the goal shouldn't be to have everybody drive an electric car instead of an ICE car. It should be about having less cars on the road, period. It should be about consuming less resources, wasting less resources, period.

I think his words are being mischaracterized here a bit, he admitted they are having success, but is simply taking issue with their absurd valuation relative to their actual success.

That being said, given Toyota's tendency to shy away from innovation lately I can see why he's getting flak. He should be, and not just because of Tesla.

I'm a diehard Toyota fanboy, because I believe in things being built to last. It's good for the environment, and good for consumers. Nothing frustrates me more cars designed to last only as long as the warranty or lease term.

I had a BMW 3 series that I loved driving which broke down far more than a non-performance variant had any right to, so the Lexus equivalent I bought afterwards was a welcome change that I've loved driving ever since.

But Toyota has hidden behind their "reliability" moniker for so long, their offerings aren't really competitive in any segments anymore.

For pickup trucks, both the Tundra and Tacoma have weak inefficient engines, with the Tacoma having a dog of a transmission. For luxury sedans, Lexus has no performance variants anymore, and their mid-performance variants have fallen woefully behind the competition (the 2021 IS350 has gained 5hp since it's debut in 2006).

My wife wants an EV so her next car is looking to be a BMW i3 (despite how much I swore I'd never buy another), and I want a reliable performance car so it seems like my next car will be a used Porsche (with maybe a mid-step at an IS-F, a car Lexus hasn't produced since 2014).

They haven't just missed the boat on EVs, their ICEs are falling terribly behind as well, what are they doing over there? Reliability doesn't matter if you're not producing anything people want.

I’ve been driving Toyota cars exclusively over the past 30 years. I’ve been driving a Prius for the last 18.

I had really hoped that Toyota would come up with an electric only vehicle, but they’ve rolled out their hybrid drive train across their entire fleet now.

They have a fuel cell vehicle which runs on hydrogen only, but there’s a small handful of stations in the UK which means it’s pointless.

I now have an electric car in order which isn’t a Toyota and I don’t think I’m going back.

I want a small, economic, non-flashy electric car for daily commuting. I don’t need the self driving feature or any other bells and whistles. Tesla doesn’t exactly fit that bill.

Japanese mega-corporations are notoriously conservative/slow to react.

While they'll survive at a minimum due to JDM dominance, and it may be plausible to ignore Tesla due to low volume numbers, GM and Volkswagen are credibly sized companies with substantial lead times over Toyota.

They've already blown their solid-state prediction for the Tokyo Olympics, Hydrogen is (at minimum) ten years from any significant consumer usage, and no EV vehicles of any technical significance aside from slapdash compliance vehicles.

Seems like head-in-the-sand behavior.

It could have been Toyota but it seems it's going to be VW that's going to bring EV:s to the masses.

Around here, a Tesla Model 3 costs 50,000, Hyundai Kona 45,000 and VW id3 40,000.

How many goal posts will they move before they realize Tesla is playing a different game?

500,000 vehicles from Tesla versus 7.5 million for Toyota projected for this financial year.

Anyone reading this should understand what is happening.

One disruptive company is growing in leaps and bounds (50% up Y/Y Q/Q for Tesla) using intrinsically cheaper and better technology, and taking a much wider view of the market by including power generation supply and storage.

The other switched to hybrid powered vehicles fast but stopped there, and thereupon lost value. Toyota sold 10 million cars in CY2019 and forecasts a COVID affected 7.5m for the year ended March 21. Sadly they don't even make electric utes (light trucks) for use in underground mines, let alone EVs for taxis and so on.

Toyota actually has plans to compete with Tesla. They announced that last year. They already have working prototype car with solid state battery which they had planned to debut at the now postponed Tokyo Olympics. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27887943/toyota-ev-rollou...

Toyota has some PHEV models but they stopped selling some models like RAV4 EV (in Japan) due to battery shortage. BEV uses dozens of times battery than PHEV. So currently for Toyota, selling some amount of PHEV/HEV is practical than selling a little EV on limited battery supply situation.

Next problem: Why Toyota won't build Li-On terafactory? Possibly they bet solid state battery.

Tesla is awfully profitable for not being a "real business."

„PC guys are not just going to walk in“ etc.

Tesla has a terrific business selling stock