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Comment by _dibly | Hacker News Reader

I don't think the comparison to digital streaming services holds up, there are plenty of subscription services that send you products and it's pretty silly to say that you don't own products that are being sent to you. It's not like HP can revoke a digital license to all of the ink I've already received. The issue here has nothing to do with subscription services themselves and everything to do with HP arbitrarily changing the terms of a deal to mandate a subscription service.

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> It's not like HP can revoke a digital license to all of the ink I've already received

That is literally what they are doing through printer firmware. They are literally preventing you from printing freely.

And they can continue to do it, even revoking their own print cartridges if they want to. "Oh, that's 2020 ink, it won't print in 2021."

Shhhhhhhhhhh, don't give them any ideas.

It'd be way too easy to claim that the ink is past it's best-by date, and that they want you to have a trouble free experience with their ink, so they are disabling that bad expired ink.

Doesn't ink expire normally after a few years?

toner cartridges last forever. I've only used 3-4 over the past 20 years, including the replacement stored for years after I bought it my printer because I assume they would pull that intro-cartridge horseshit but they didn't - they still won!

"Oh, not ink bought in Utica, no, only Albany ink."

“Oh that’s Word 8, it doesn’t work with Windows 10.”

Lexmark already does this with their toner cartridges on mid-size business machines.

It's horrifying to think that any ink that I might have stocked up maybe 2 years ago during a sale could be unusable.

Plus, since it's a consumable, it's much harder to return a defective ink cartridge once the packaging has been opened.

HP also region-lock their ink like it’s a dvd or something.

As I discovered when my UK printer was accidentally shipped with US ink. The printer permanently locked itself and refused to accept any HP ink sold in the UK.

Will never buy anything from HP ever again.

Well I must say, after coming back to check the thread later on I've learned a lot about HP's awful business practices. Based on the article (and the fact that I've had the same HP printer for over a decade now) I had no idea that they were using DRM in their ink cartridges. I guess when I finally update my printer I'll be switching to a different brand.

> It's not like HP can revoke a digital license to all of the ink I've already received.

Actually, it's exactly like that. HP cartridges can and do expire, and printers will refuse to work with them even though they are still full and functional.

Yes but that's not really the case here

It's important as HP has done it before and will do it again. This is just a new variation of that same mentality.

Fool me twice, can't get fooled again except ink.

>Fool me twice, can't get fooled again except ink.

This is a common saying in Texas, apparently.

I have an HP printer/scanner from ~2007 and when it eventually dies I plan to replace it with a similar unit of the same vintage, because it seems the ink shenanigans have only gotten worse with newer technology. I can at least still buy 3rd-party refilled cartridges online without worrying about them getting deactivated.

My dad's printer is affected by this news, and between this and other recent issues it's having I doubt he'll ever buy a new HP printer again. He's been a lifelong (dare I say lifetime) customer since buying his HP 12C calculator in the 80s, and has owned only HP printers since his first DeskJet 697c in '96.

>I plan to replace it with a similar unit of the same vintage

Buy a non-shit brand that doesn't connect to the internet, eg. something from Brother without internet connectivity.

Second that, owned several Brother things, never had trouble or any shenanigans like HP does.

I always put our printers on a separate vlan that only accepts connections from our primary vlan. No magic firmware updates anymore.

My recent experience with Brother was decidedly shitty: an inkjet printer that died after a few months.

On the other hand, I have a Brother laser printer that's still working after 17 years - and they still manufacture toner cartridges for it. (It's so old that it has a parallel port[1] in addition to a USB port.)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_port

The one I have sets up its own wireless network which is definitely a security risk, but it doesn't connect to my LAN or the internet. I've seen newer ones that do connect to the internet and it only seems like trouble.

I was thinking about this a few weeks ago because I found an identical printer at a thrift store for $4. I didn't get it but thought it would be nice to be able to keep using my stash of 3rd-party cartridges.

Also, forgot you mentioned Brother. I decided not to get another yet printer because I already have a spare Brother MFC with just USB and parallel connections. I've had worse experiences with Brother software than HP, but it still seems to work with my computer.

I also have a dot matrix printer with enough ribbon to last me a decade or so. So I really don't need to look for another printer for a while.

The problem is that in the modern world, a printer needs some sort of net connection, even if just to the local router. People aren't just printing from their computers; they need to print from their tablets and phones too.

Well sure, if you want to print wirelessly, you're going to need wireless (LAN is enough, no need for WAN though) :)

I'll have to check, but I don't think mine is connected to the router at all. Pretty sure it sets up its own ad-hoc network for wireless printing, which I would imagine has its own vulnerabilities but at least requires an attacker to be physically trespassing on my property. :-)

I have a relatively new printer and it accepts cartridges from whatever I happen to click on Amazon, no problemo. I think it's just shittiness unique to HP (maybe some other brands?) - avoiding them would avoid the trouble.

To be fair, the 12C is pretty amazing.

I've got a couple of pre-2008 HP scanners and laser printers that I intend to keep going as long as at all possible, because the alternatives are just so horrible. Fortunately, they're pretty repairable, and all the consumables are still reasonable. And, frankly, I don't print that much any more. SCSI is getting slightly more interesting to support, but not unreasonable.

Agreed on the 12C, I hope to inherit that someday.

That first DeskJet lasted us around a decade until we replaced it with a couple of DeskJet 3500s that didn't need a parallel port and were cheaper than new ink. I still have one of those squirreled away just in case.

Those printers are refreshingly simple, with no screen or wifi and only one button (power) and one port (USB).

Just make sure to change the batteries periodically in that 12C. About the only thing I've found that can kill an old school (pre-2008) 12C (and the 16C and the rest of the series) is leaking batteries.

> It's not like HP can revoke a digital license to all of the ink I've already received.

Except they’ve done exactly that. Twice. Issues as “security” updates no less.

well they were securing their future revenue streams, so accurate just not the reasonable interpretation.

> It's not like HP can revoke a digital license to all of the ink I've already received.

It is exactly like that. If you unenroll a printer from Instant Ink, it will no longer accept the cartridges provided under that program.

I use the service and like it - for photo prints, where the per-page pricing model works in my favor; for documents, I have a monochrome laser. But outside my specific and very narrow use case, it is a terrible deal.

Hp can revoke that liscense, though. They put drm chips in the cartridge and your printer will refuse to work with them.

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