Ask HN: How do you stay sane during a floundering job search? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How do you stay sane during a floundering job search?

20 pointsrc-114017 comments

I've been on the market for a new job since April following a Covid-19 layoff, and I’m really struggling to deal with the way things are right now. I'm a non-traditional developer who just reached the low end of mid-level and I just can’t seem to “win”.

I’ll get an interview with a company that seems to have a relatively simple product and reportedly “easy” interview process according to Glassdoor, and I’ll get slammed with difficult leetcode questions that don’t seem to get any easier the more I read and practice. Other times, I’ll somehow get an interview with a company that has a complicated product, so I’ll be researching the technology they use and trying to prepare myself for whatever leetcode humiliation I have to suffer, only to drop the ball on a really easy non-leetcode problem. I just came off of this for a contract position that was really exciting but I messed up the absolute easiest rule about interfaces while looking for compiler errors that cost me.

Still other companies have HackerRank knockoffs like CodeSignal that don’t support relatively recent versions of languages, making trivial tasks like database access or HTTP GET requests either unnecessarily complex or completely impossible in an interview scenario. Normal code that I've implemented, seen on the job, or otherwise seen on the internet just doesn't work for these platforms.

I get ghosted a lot after the HR stage seems to go well. A decently-known US company went so far as to reach out to me on StackOverflow, connect me with a recruiter, set up a date for just a chat, and then suddenly fill the position and end the conversation.

How does anyone without a network of people they can ask for jobs deal with this? I don't think I can take much more of this, nothing so far seems to help. Whenever I try to ask questions or get advice I just get college students and new grads giving me "good vibes" or inapplicable advice they peeled off of CSCQ/dev.to and it's driving me nuts.

You have to balance interest against need. My job search strategy heavily prioritizes interest. I will watch videos from conferences who overlap technologies I enjoy. For any speaker I enjoy I note their company. I will use LinkedIn to find similar companies. I have a quota I usually set to myself for every week, like 20 applications a week. Up until Wednesday I can apply to anything I want, by the end of the week I have to hit my quota no matter what. This alternating between jobs I want and jobs I am qualified for keeps your mind engaged in different ways.

I don't use competition listing sites for interviews. No hacker rank, don't care if my github is green, no project Euler. I don't apply to companies that require this.

In the evenings do coding problems on a whiteboard or clean paper. Being able to debug written code increases your ability to communicate about that code. Good teachers interview well, they are not necessarily the best employees but they interview very well.

When you get an interview, it helps to show some strong confidence. During the first phone screen make it clear that your intention is to complete any interview that you've gotten past the first phone screen. Let them know that you will inform them and all other active circuits upon a first job offer in order so they can prioritize closing out your circuit. This sets the mood for your communication going forward

Hi,

Sorry if my reply addresses trivial things, but I'll just write it to make sure we're not missing ways out.

You can make or troubleshoot software elsewhere than 'software companies'. Banks, energy companies, telecoms, government, and practically every organization relies on software one way or another.

Making a living does not imply being hired full time at a company. Have you looked into freelancing just to make a living right now and get your basic needs taken care of? There are dental offices that need software or IT chops.

Have you tried applying at startups or small shops? These tend to focus more on actual need, and people involved in hiring tend to be engineers you'll work with who are most likely not in the business of binary tree fondling. At the very early stage, they need people who'll do everything to solve a problem.

If you'd like to give freelancing or consulting a shit and found that it works for you, I've written a bit on ways to do it effectively[0].

My contact info is in my profile if you want to chat, bounce off ideas, or talk about problems in your hiring/work. I'll anwser to the best of my ability.

- [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24972611

> You can make or troubleshoot software elsewhere than 'software companies'. Banks, energy companies, telecoms, government, and practically every organization relies on software one way or another.

Unfortunately I'm unwanted there as well. I've been ghosted or rejected at the resume stage by every bank, energy company, postal company, etc. I've applied to. Government contracts always end with the recruiter saying that people are interviewing for the position and I have to wait and see (it never pans out).

> Have you looked into freelancing just to make a living right now and get your basic needs taken care of?

Freelancing is a foreign-dominated market and I currently need a position that's safe and consistent in terms of pay, as I have a dependent parent. I've been living off of emergency savings and unemployment so I need something that can rebuild that fund, and I can't risk my sole source of income being denied because I was underbid by someone from China or India.

> Have you tried applying at startups or small shops?

Yes for small shops, same results. Early on in my search, one particular small shop sent me a code screen before they would talk to me, I got the question right, and I was still rejected without even speaking to anybody. I try to avoid startups for similar reasons I list for freelancing.

Have you had people reviewing your CV? Wonder if there's something wrong with it! Feeling like you're "unwanted" at a such big scale doesn't sound like the truth! Perhaps working in your self image could be of help.

As far as startups, you could find a job in one and still continue looking for a job in the side if you feel insecure about the situation. It seems like you're struggling to land something and landing something is better than not landing anything.

Yes, I've gone through double-digit revisions of my resume at this point. Asked someone I knew to look at it, then went so far as to post it on reddit's CSCQ board, got people telling me it was fine and a student telling me to make the subtitle under my name (which is at the top of my resume) bold or something like that.

I was a SDET in my last role, but I have web projects on my github to compliment the desktop work I've done, doesn't seem to be good enough for junior roles.

Jugurtha covered a lot of the job market, I just want to cover the staying sane part.

I went through a 3 month stink last year where I was without a job. The main reason why I stayed sane was due to;

1. I worked on my side project https://github.com/robotichead/NearBeach. 2. I improved/studied my knowledge

From working on my side project I was able to show a lot of companies the project. This actually gave a foot in the door and an eventual job. I am not saying start your own project, however if you see a project online that you want to jump in and contribute I would highly recommend. You can then use this experience for your CV's STAR.

As for improving my knowledge, this is not just programming. There are many things you can improve on that can help, for example I noticed a lot of companies were using AWS or Azure. So I spent my time learning AWS - which was a second pillar for me getting my current job.

Those are the two main things that kept me sane during those 3 months. Good luck at getting a job - it is horrible being knocked back :(

I've been doing both of those myself, but it hasn't really paid off in any way. I made a CLI for interacting with Neocities and I've been sitting on Pluralsight a lot, but I don't get far enough or get people who want to hear about my projects or work.

AWS is a good topic, I'll probably sink a bunch of Pluralsight and grind time into it. Thanks for the wishes.

I went through a similar experience recently. Got laid off, was unemployed for 2 months, recently just started a new job. I went through the same leetcode humiliation as well. My only advice as far as the job search goes is to "git gud". Really, what else can you do? Keep grinding and doing as many problems as you can. Interviewing is a numbers game, and eventually your stars will align where you'll either get problems you've seen before or can solve reasonably well on the spot. But the important thing is to keep doing those problems.

Aside from that, you need to take care of your mental health. Being unemployed and getting wrecked in every interview was seriously depressing. Develop a strong support network of friends and family that you can vent to. I didn't have friends to refer me to companies but I had friends who would listen to me whine and complain about how life was shitty. And that helped me a lot. Exercise every day, eat clean, get a good night's sleep. That's all I've got for you. Now get back to leetcoding.

I should probably try to constructively vent more or find people to listen to my leetcode woes. I don't really leverage my friends circle to complain about the hunt. Leetcode's definitely the constant.

Hoping I can look back at this thread a few years from now and realize I made it through a bad spot. Thanks for the response.

There is this list of companies that don't use Leetcode questions as a filter: https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards

I have also found that startups tend to be more lenient. Perhaps look at angel.co/jobs, workatastartup.com/jobs or TechCrunch to find companies that have raised money recently.

Lastly it looks like you have C# experience. It seems there are some openings in the gaming industry; maybe consider learning Unity or Unreal Engine?

Keep improving while you’re waiting. Read and code and improve between each interview. You can’t lose. Don’t burn yourself out. Also, Leetcode can get in the f@@&ng sea. If employers are seriously giving so much weight to Leetcode tests theses days to grade candidates then I really do despair. The interview process is broken.

Ps. Don’t get too disheartened by all the rejections. I was also laid off due to Covid. Overnight the job market was flooded and the bar got raised extremely high for all jobs. It’s not a normal situation and many others are probably feeling the same as you.

Identify why you're not getting better with practice. As a developer, you're constantly learning. "Learn How to Learn" is a great course on Coursera.

Maybe, your expectation is off. You won't get better in a day, it takes weeks, if not months to get better.

To stay sane, make sure to take care of yourself. Eat, sleep, and exercise well. These things are not luxuries, they are requirements.

The last job search I went thru really, really sucked. The main way I made it through was side projects. One of those side projects ended up being https://jobhound.io/ which is a CMS for your job applications so you know where you are with a given job you are applying for.

If you've been unsuccessful with self tutoring leetcode for this long, maybe you should look into Interview Kickstart or a similar service.

Keep in mind there's a fair amount of luck in the process and don't beat yourself up over it. Plenty of opportunities out there and you'll find the right fit eventually.

Specialize in a niche and write about it. This will attract hiring managers looking to hire somebody for a specific role/task and they will be more likely to hire you without jumping through code hoops.

As long as I don't have much debt I'm OK with that situation. Other than that I just struggled on.

I call it the "tinder generation", it's not you ;)

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