The Great Cannonball Boom | Hacker News Reader

The Great Cannonball Boom

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45 pointsDigit-Al56 comments

I remember at the beginning of quarantine and social distancing, thinking that at least road deaths would go down because there would be less traffic. Unfortunately that has not been the case, as it looks like road deaths spiked sharply, at least in the US. Full statistics will take a while to compile, but initial results do not look good.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/08/31/roadway-deaths-are-wa...

It will be interesting to know for how many of these deaths increased DUI could account.

...and how many to illegal races like the one this article is glorifying?

I think way more people are killed by local races, just because there are way more of them, but it's all part of the same culture.

by all accounts, the cannonball teams seem to be pretty careful. do you know of any nonparticipants that have ever died in a cannonball run?

Have there been enough cannonball runners to even make for a statistically significant sample?

I dunno what "statistically significant" would mean in this context, but people have been doing it since the 1930s, though most of the runs have been in the last fifty years. they claim that no bystanders have been injured in the history of the run, and I can't find any evidence to the contrary. I don't think it's a good idea to go from one US coast to the other as fast as possible, but the pearl-clutching is a bit much.

Presumably you wouldn't argue that because there are zero bystander injuries or fatalities that it is actually perfectly safe (for bystanders), right? You would just argue that there haven't been enough runs to accurately assess its safety. If ordinary "safe" car travel results in one fatality for every ten thousand trips (assuming all trips are equal apart from the 'cannonball' variable for simplicity) and if there have only been 50 cannonball run trips, it's entirely possible that cannonball runs are twice as dangerous as a regular trip and we would still expect to see zero bystander incidents in those 50 trips. The question is "have there been enough cannonball runs to accurately assess safety?".

> Presumably you wouldn't argue that because there are zero bystander injuries or fatalities that it is actually perfectly safe (for bystanders), right?

of course not. let me explain my perspective in a bit more detail.

first of all, these people are all experienced drivers in very capable, well-maintained vehicles. they have a network of scouts to help them avoid police and traffic. even if individual drivers don't care much about safety, there is a strong incentive to route around traffic because of how much time it costs. any sort of speed competition on public roads is inherently reckless, but I would honestly doubt if it's much riskier per mile than my morning commute on I-95.

second, and if nothing else, it's cool to see what is essentially the state of the art when it comes to evading law enforcement. it's hard to get an honest test of this stuff without deliberately breaking the rules, and I'm glad someone is out there doing it so I can watch and learn safely from home. anyone thumbing their nose at the cops like this is going to get at least a little respect from me.

finally, there just aren't that many people doing this. hard to say for sure but I'd guess the number of attempts per year is somewhere in the low to mid tens. it's sort of like complaining about the fuel efficiency on a new bugatti. you're not necessarily wrong, but they're only going to make 200 of them. who cares?

No doubt they're above average drivers, but TFA describes a mustang going 160 mph in the dark with a driver who hadn't slept in 24 hours and a bunch of gasoline in the back seat. I firmly believe that the speed limits are too low (unsafely so), but this is reckless even if drivers don't have makeshift gas tanks in their back seat. I can't believe their excellence at driving negates these additional risks--not even in the same ballpark, and I certainly don't think the observation that no bystanders have been killed/injured supports your position.

> anyone thumbing their nose at the cops like this is going to get at least a little respect from me.

Get an "ACAB" bumper sticker if "anti-police" is your schtick. Don't put innocent lives at risk.

Characterizing participants in an event where the goal seems to be to drive across the country with the pedal literally to the metal for as much time as possible as "careful" sounds very strange to me.

Possibly fewer since bars are closed (-ish, depending on your location)?

We take our recyclables to the transfer station and live in a state with a bottle deposit. The folks who process bottles and cans confirm that we're (collectively) drinking a lot more at home these days.

It is specifically the death rate per traveled mile, not the absolute death toll, not the number of accidents.

It is understandable. Because there are less people on the road, people drive faster, and faster driving means accidents are more deadly. Slow, dense traffic is more likely to cause fender benders than deadly accidents.

This is also part of the reason why the night is deadlier than the day, besides the obvious reduction in visibility.

Observation of the road outside my door offers a nuance:

People who drive at unsafe speeds have fewer obstacles to doing so.

It’s not that a greater percentage people are trying to go faster due to the plague, it’s that there’s fewer cars which reduces the chances of the speeders being slowed down by traffic.

or it could be more benign. surface streets already have more fatalities per mile than highways. simply shifting the fraction of total miles traveled to surface streets could be enough to increase the average fatalities per mile by itself.

In some places it's also absolute death toll. I think we'll have to wait and see how it all shakes out.

It's an interesting "natural" experiment for sure.

If you found this compelling (separate from whether or not you approve of it), you might enjoy The Emerald Mile, which is the story of the fastest recorded run of the Grand Canyon of the Colorado River. The team took advantage of similarly extraordinary conditions and pulled it off with incredible style in a dory.

Interwoven with that story are the stories of the commercial river trips that got caught in the perilous conditions and the struggle to save Glen Canyon Dam from catastrophic failure.

Edited to add: I don't want to oversell this or anything, but I'd say it's on my list of candidates for greatest story ever told with the likes of Miracle in the Andes and Touching the Void.

Driving long distances at super-stupid speeds is something I have done, albeit only on British roads. I had a bully of a boss who made me do it in his cars, all of which were powerful for the time.

What it gives you is a very different perspective on car shows where they test cars on closed circuits and runways. If you are going downhill for ten miles or so then you are going well above what the top speed of your vehicle is supposed to be. Skill level is approximately zero as you are just pushing a pedal and totally ready for that moment when you get stopped and banned from driving for what must be forever. Maybe with jail time.

The other perspective is on those police chase shows where the bad guy is only doing something like double the speed limit. You have been tanking along somewhat faster than that.

My weapon of choice was actually a brick shaped Renault Espace with a V6 engine in it. That could roll along at aforementioned speed for mile after mile, no mechanical woes at all. I am sure it wouldn't get to these speeds with the Stig on Top Gear, but, if you are driving the length of the country, then something magical happens even if the 150 to 151 mph time is 301 seconds. The speed just keeps going upwards.

Youthful stupidity means this is possible with walls of snow on either side of the road at 3 a.m. which amounts to the clear roads the recent Cannonball runs had.

There is also an adjustment afterwards when you are driving normal cars at normal speeds. For me this was just not what I wanted to do so I actually quit driving, having got away with many crimes. Nowadays, Ed Bolian aside, I detest anyone going at stupid speeds on normal roads. If you crash then you are going to have your brain crash inside your skull making you brain dead. Not to mention inconveniencing the world with the road closed and the people in the other car in hospital.

As far as driving is concerned, I have 'lived' and got several cars cruising along at that top speed figure few drivers would dare get to. Although I will never do that again I have scratched that itch. If I was to get back into driving I would recommend a vehicle with a good view so the scenery can be enjoyed at a safe 65 mph. I would also recommend a full roll cage with harness - for those maximum 65 mph speeds. As it is most motorway driving is more dangerous than people appreciate, not least because the roads are shared with crazy idiots like my younger self.

What’s with the bizarre distortions on the pictures of the car?

Documented testimony of flagrant disregard for interstate law might have something to do with it.

If one of the many jurisdictions passed through has camera footage with the car and face uniquely identified, that’s a lot of legal exposure.

That doesn't really make sense, since this guy already did an interview for VinWiki, describing the run, how he did it, and showing pictures of the car: https://youtu.be/EvQFDtJUdHw?t=207

The people assisting by intentionally tying up the cops could have additional charges brought against them if identified.

I noticed this as well. At first glance, having not read the article at that point yet, I thought it was some AI generated car with distortion knowing typical HN articles. After reading the extensively long article, I realized it was likely distorted maybe out of an abundance of caution against potential identification from modern law enforcement tech? Given the highly illegal nature of the sport/challenge, and the likelihood of the characters of the article to reuse their vehicles for such activities, this was the best explanation that came to my mind.

It was a rental car, and just a stock Ford Mustang. No need for concealment.

If this stuff is interesting to you, the VINwiki YouTube channel is a gold mine: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCefl-5pmhZmljwZTE2KrcdA

(Rabbit's episodes are my favorite, though)

Ed used to rub me the wrong way. He comes across as this kind of stuck up rich asshole type, but after watching the CarTrek series, my opinion of him has increased. He's kind of funny in an awkward, dry kind of way.

Totally know exactly what you mean. I think that is from all his time spent working in high end dealerships.

Yeah, I could totally see that. I mean, he is a Lamborghini salesman at the end of the day.

Ed is a super nice guy, genuinely kind, and he's done a lot to preserve "Cannonball history".

This on the one hand is fun and fascinating but also I hope everyone involved in these goes to jail for a little bit.

Just like every startup that flouts the law?

>> The rules are simple: Drivers start in Manhattan [...] and finish [..] in Redondo Beach, California. What happens in between is up to them.

There are plenty of other rules. Some seem obvious, others less so.

(1) It has to be a single car, not a relay. This means you cannot just hop between prepped/fueled cars. No pony express runs.

(2) It has to be "driven". No packing the car into an aircraft. No aircraft/car transformers. No putting your tesla on a rocket.

(3) It has to be unescorted, at least not be government officials. Blocking/support cars maybe, but no cops escorting you through traffic.

(4) It has to be on public roads. No paying to have roads shut. With today's crop of billionaires, closing large sections of highway to "film a movie stunt" is an option.

Documenting that you have abided by these rules, that you haven't used two identical cars and flown the driver, means you basically must produce video footage. Video footage means you have documented your actions and any number of police agencies could arrest you on the spot.

Is there a place where some of these rules are collected?

I dream of a legal attempt at the Cannonball Run. I naively imagine that it should be possible in under 24 hours, with roads safely cleared with police protection (likely for under 1 hour in any given place)?

> any number of police agencies could arrest you on the spot

So why aren't they arrested?

So he freely admits to doing that? Would the state not prosecute him for his crimes? It seems there would be a decent amount of evidence.

I had the same question. Previous Canonballers have waited until statutes of limitations have run out before publishing their exploits.

You're welcome to freely admit committing all manner of crimes. The police can't just arrest you because you ran your mouth. There must be evidence. Now, if they can tie your confession with evidence they have, perhaps they have a case.

You can't be arrested, tried, and sentenced for such fictional bluster about a crime that didn't happen. And, as far as due process goes, there's no crime without, at a minimum, a witness/complainant, and hopefully some amount of evidence.

So the question becomes: assuming all this actually happened, do the authorities have evidence that it did, and can they tie it to the guy that has confessed?

"there's no crime without, at a minimum, a witness/complainant,"

what?

If, for example, the police found the body of someone who'd been murdered. There would be an investigation. No witness or complainant needed.

That rises above/past complainant into evidence. Fits perfectly into the intent of my comment.

Your confession is evidence. You can absolutely be arrested and convicted based only on a confession.

How about confessing to a crime that doesn’t exist?

You're thinking of corpus delicti, I assume? Lots of states have loosened that rule to something that's pretty easy to satisfy--basically that the prosecution just needs to show some evidence that the confession is trustworthy. So independent evidence proving that the crime exists is not always required anymore.

Ed's youtube vinwiki is also worth checking out. Lots of funny car stories on there. Not entirely convinced they're all 100% true but entertaining nonetheless

Oh man, I fell down that rabbithole the other day and they are fantastic. Many parts of many stories have photos and stuff to back 'em up, but in between the corroborating evidence, sure, who knows about the details? I suspect they're very substantially true though, having done enough shit myself that results in stories with exactly the same ring when told. ;)

In addition to The Cannonball Run movie, there's also a very enjoyable The Gumball Rally -

https://www.imdb.com/video/vi508673817

It's one of my all time favourite movies actually. Highly recommended.

The Cannonball Run.. Rich assholes dangerously flouting the law, cus thats what elites do. Its not enough for them to have all the resources they could ever need, they also have to show that the law doesnt apply to them, as an additional status symbol. Similar to Weinstein type stuff.

Very true. If these idiots wanted to actually compete, they could do some real racing. The only problem would be that they would quickly see that doing well in racing is much harder than doing Cannonball where the only skill you need is to be more reckless than others.

There are plenty of options for racing for very taste , be it Rallye, open wheelers, karting, 24 hours races.

This feels to me like guys thinking they are tough because they beat up people on the streets. Only to find out that when they go a real MMA or boxing that they get destroyed easily by fighters who actually have skills.

And putting other people at risk

There's a thin line between documenting everybody's freedom and proving to yourself that you're one of these people. I'd say it's the continued pursuit that makes it an exclusive society rather than a piece of performative art.

I still find myself following everything about these runs like an idiot, I can't help it.

If you read TFA you’d note that quite possibly none of these people are rich or elite according to any reasonable Progressive taxonomy of evil. And they are not showing that the law doesn’t apply to them; they realize that what they’re doing could land them in jail. And the article points out that the fame these people achieve is minor and fleeting — perhaps nonexistent — and Cannonballers often do it not for the fame but for the inherent challenge of it.

These people embody the hacker ethos, and while their actions obviously inhabit an ethical grey area, challenges like the Cannonball speak to some adventurous souls in a way that no officially sanctioned event can. Note also, according to TFA, that the worst injury that has happened as a result of a Cannonball attempt was a driver breaking her arm after drifting off the road as a result of falling asleep at the wheel.

Cannonballers and people like them are akin to the skater kids of Dogtown and Z-Boys while the acceptable events that a child of your comment mentioned are events for the well-scrubbed kids being driven around by their parents for soccer or lacrosse practice. But even skating has been captured by the parents and the commercical skate parks. We should pour one out for the death of yet another activity that people used to practice, yes maybe a bit for the possibility of fame but more likely, for the pure joy of that moment when everything comes together and you hook up.

That’s why I’ve been doing start-ups for over twenty-five years. That’s why I rode my motorcycle solo between Brooklyn and Long Beach, CA, in fewer than four days, that’s why I’ve ridden solo to Alaska and across the Trans-Labrador Highway.

I am posting this anonymously not because I’m afraid of anyone’s downvotes — I’ve whored my way to enough karma to burn at will — but because I don’t want to publicly associate myself with what I’ve done. The rewards of doing many of these things are quiet and private, and talking about them in public take something away from their merit because it amounts to boasting.

These people do this for themselves, or to people able to share a beer with the people they did it with or someone who knows what they’ve gone through. These people, in all of their moral ambiguity, need to be respected. And “respected despite the moral ambiguity” is something that too few people can do today.

Its nothing like the skater kids of Dogtown. A skateboard is not a ton or two of metal and plastic, a skateboard travels at a fraction of the speed. Its potential to crush and maim innocent people and cause damage on public roads is not comparable.

The kids of Dogtown committed many, many property crimes as the trespassed to skate the empty swimming pools of SoCal during the drought and created modern skateboarding as we know it. Skaters all over America during the ‘80s and ‘90s were treated as degenerates and nuisances. I have friends who were endlessly hassled by the cops.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/maxwellneelycohen/how-p...

You refer to people’s potential to crush and main, yet, again, the only recorded injury was to a single Cannonballer who broke her arm.

I’m not arguing that these people are as pure as the driven snow — had you read my entire comment you would know that. If you drive I am certain that you speed and break all manner of laws on a regular basis. Most people who wrap themselves in pretzels to justify their lawbreaking while distancing themselves from those evil people over there that they’re nothing like.

We are all criminals, we all do selfish, antisocial things that subtract from other people’s health, safety, wealth, and general wellbeing. I think everyone agrees, including those who drive the Cannonball themselves, that they deserve to spend some time in jail or at the very least suffer some nasty speeding tickets.

Simply trespassing cannot possibly harm another person.

"the only recorded injury was to a single Cannonballer who broke her arm"

Thats simply luck. It is a fact that speeding in a motor vehicle is extremely dangerous. There's endless data supporting the link between speed and death. Speeding in a motor vehicle on public roads is doing something that is known to, and can easily kill innocent people. If one really wants the social cachet of being a rich 'rebel', please do something that can only kill oneself. That would be fine. Dont risk the lives of other innocent people.

These people are not rich. Where is this recurring erroneous assertion coming from? Is your moral framework that all evil comes from wealth and therefore these people must be wealthy?

We all get bees in our bonnet about different things and you’re entitled to whatever preoccupation suits you.

I believe the world would be a far safer, less irritating place if traffic policing focused on people who don’t yield the left lane when traffic approaches from behind. The people who do this cause accidents by encouraging people driving quickly to pass on the right. Such lane hogs present a far greater danger to my personal safety than people who are simply driving fast, and leftmost lane slowpokes are far more likely to possess the sort of righteous attitude that your comment embodies. Righteousness and more specifically righteous anger get people killed.

I can assure you that the vast majority of folks doing these runs are not wealthy. Some? Sure.

For instance, The 2904 was famous for requiring you to do the whole run in $2904, including the car!

Great article for this great cannonball boom, thanks.

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