Achieving Goals Like a Mad Klingon | Hacker News Reader

Achieving Goals Like a Mad Klingon

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51 pointsjirinovotny28 comments

Maybe some good content here, but jesus, does it have to come off as an infomercial?

Although I thought 40 hour work week had some neat ideas in it, my biggest complaint is the army of Tim Ferris clones it has created. I am so tired of the posturing, the "I will flaunt my (real?) success to create success" and other random personality hacks.

I know nothing of the author of this post, but the tone and writing style just makes him sound like he should be screaming the blog post to me, telling me how it is a limited offer.

No offense to you Mr Successful author, this was just the straw that broke my back.

Please.. stop.. the.. madness..

</rant>

My thoughts were similar, the content was interesting but the Jeff Atwood writing style had claimed another victim. As a writer, I strive to have my words and ideas express themselves without the constant use of italics, bold and exclamation points. I understand it's a choice (and God knows, it's made Jeff Atwood famous) but there's only so many important things to say in an essay and chances are they don't need to be bolded as badly as one might think.

I totally agree with what he's saying. At the beginning of this year, I weighed 236 pounds (6'1") and felt terrible about how I'd let my body get so out of shape. So, I made a commitment (mostly with myself, but let everyone else know) that I wouldn't eat out at restaurants (one of my favorite things to do - I'm a big foodie) until I got under 200 lbs. That was the only commitment - all of the details, as in what to eat, how to work out, etc. I figured I'd optimize as time went on because I wanted to go out to eat again.

It's been 4 months and I'm at 203 now - so I've lost about 2 pounds a week (while gaining a bunch of muscle too), and am closing in on my (initial...) goal of 200 lbs. Going to have a bit of a celebration, and then set another one for 180 and some type of cardiovascular measurement / achievement. This has been one of the best things I've done in my life so far.

I don't think the premise is bad, but we're pretty good about separating REAL consequences from contrived ones.

Example:

Several years ago, I put a $100 bill in five different envelopes (w/ no return address)... all addressed to a guy I really, really dislike. I gave the envelopes to my housekeeper and told her that every week, we'd measure my weight and compare it to the previous week. If I didn't lose weight during the week, she was to mail one of those envelopes. It worked for 2 weeks, but then I gained 1/2 lb during the 3rd week and I pleaded until she handed over my envelopes.

I think there might be a workable hack here, but it takes courage to make the consequences real and irrevocable.

You should have just given the money to the housekeeper. Than you would, presumably, have been less likely to renege to her face.

Even more fun, make two sets of envelopes, one set of $10 bills and one set of $100 bills. The house keeper always gets an envelope, but your weight determines which one. That way, she's not too disappointed when you succeed, and when you fail, you've at least helped out somebody you like.

Although presumably the idea is not to fail.

This works for something like doing an Ironman, where it's up to you and only you. That's how I did my Ironman.

But it doesn't work like that for things that don't just depend on you, like doing a startup or closing a deal, even of you "Commit to it like a madman. Plow through like a Klingon. No looking back. Celebrate." You have to be very careful about this, because when the "Celebrate." part doesn't come, you'll learn how low the lows really can get.

Agreed, but the important thing to remember is that it's not about completing the goal, but rather working towards it. That's a very important distinction.

For example, you can still work on your startup even when others are sabotaging it, rejecting you, etc.

"Like a mad Klingon"

I was just thinking the other day about terms like "ninja", "pirate", and "rockstar" that are so played out at this point they make me cringe whenever I hear them. Isn't there something fresh to convey the concept of being a badass? "Klingon" works pretty nicely. For now at least.

I actually studied ninjutsu (Togakure-ryu) for a several years in the late eighties. The core of real ninjutsu is adaptability, not the movie-ninjutsu that apparently supported the "ninja coder" silliness.

"Like a mad Klingon" would be "Fire-style" in ninpo terms; direct, forward focused; make yourself into an "irresistible force", or as close to it as you can manage.

A real ninja coder would be someone with a wide repertoire of techniques and tactics and a deep understanding of his craft, and who constantly adapts his approach to the needs of the work.

Is there a pile of rotting forshak in here, or is it you? Compared to a Klingon warrior, a ninja is but a bloodless p'tahk!

Brilliant! Now, to find a sadistic, cold soulless partner...

Oh, rats! I've surrounded myself with helpful supportive friends and family. I'm screwed.

"Tough love". Ever heard about it? ;)

Anyone remembers the post "Fooling myself to work"? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2456222

This is another life-hack that has helped me immensely when building my startup.

There's a RadioLab episode where they explore this type of self-discipline (among other things). When a woman wanted to finally quit smoking, she told her friend that if she ever smoked again, the friend should take $5,000 out of her bank account and give it to the KKK. She couldn't bear the thought of her money supporting that group, and she never smoked again.

Edit: Here's the episode http://www.radiolab.org/2011/mar/08/ It's really quite good, like most RadioLabs.

The author says this is not very effective but not bad advice. I disagree, this is perhaps the worst advice you could give someone:

# Publicly announce that you will work on your goal, and that you are going to post regular daily or weekly updates regarding your goal. Announce it on Facebook, Twitter, and tell this to everyone you see regularly, etc.

http://www.psych.nyu.edu/gollwitzer/09_Gollwitzer_Sheeran_Se...

Anyway, I'm still skeptical of the madman hack since that seems like what most students do and most students still have motivation problems.

Don't forget that you are quoting the "What doesn't work" section. That being said, it can still work for some people.

Regarding the madman hack: It is definitely not something that most students do. How did you come to that conclusion? I have never personally met anyone who does it (beside myself), and I know a bunch of students. However, I've heard about some successful people that use it.

Yes, my phrasing is kind of weird, it is definitely a "doesn't work" thing. And as the study shows, it might work when the task isn't identity-related, but considering it's an actively harmful strategy (rather than just "not working") I wouldn't even recommend it in passing.

Perhaps not many students act like Klingons but the crucial part of this post seems to be about making a credible commitment, with this as the example:

"I will work on my Android app at least 2 hours every single day for 6 months, or until the app is released. Every day, I will send you an email report of what I’ve learned or accomplished that day, and how many hours I’ve roughly worked. If I skip a day, it’s OK, but if I ever skip two days in a row, I will give you $2000, and do your laundry and clean your windows every week for the next 12 months. You are to hold me accountable, and demand that I hold my end of the deal. If I ever forget to send you an email, you are to call me and ask me about my progress."

While I suppose a lot of students aren't planning on day-to-day schedules for their work (though some certainly do), there is nevertheless a cost that can easily exceed $2k for failing in college.

I have met someone who did this (my grandfather). Any time he had a difficult goal, he would do this. He also had a partner that was clearly adversarial.

For example, when the goal was weight-loss, his partner would actually put chocolate on his desk every morning. I always thought that seemed counter-productive, but after reading some other comments here, I think that it made it clear that the partner was serious about getting the reward, so was unlikely to renegotiate.

That post could be boiled down to a single concept: commitment. If you're committed to an idea, person, goal or objective, you won't have to trick yourself into doing anything, it will just happen. That doesn't mean it will be easy but the effort becomes the means to the end. Without the commitment, the effort becomes the focus.

Best statement in the book is in the section on decision blockages - "The Big Fact is this: In very few instances is one decision actually better than another." Many different decisions can be made successful, given the investment in seeing it through.

From my review of Overcoming Indecisiveness; a very useful little book.

http://www.amazon.com/Overcoming-Indecisiveness-Stages-Effec...

Reads like a HOWTO for burnout.

There's a fatal flaw in this technique ... one that usually gets me.

What happens when you fail the goal, then manage to re-negotiate the terms of the agreement so the downside almost doesn't exist?

What happens when you know in advance you'll almost certainly be able to do this?

What happens when you fail the goal, then manage to re-negotiate the terms of the agreement so the downside almost doesn't exist?

Uh, yeah, you're looking for "How to Set Goals Like a Farengi", down the hall.

Klingons don't re-negotiate :) Ok, seriously now: If you fail, you do what you've agreed to. And even if you cowardly re-negotiate, you will probably get a hard time from your partner, which is nothing pleasant.

If you know that you will be able to do it, all the better. You will be able to make a bigger commitment.

I meant being able to re-negotiate :P

And yes, in principle, I'm all for doing what you've agreed to ... but in practice I'd really rather give the partner a different offer we can both be happy with.

Well, if you know you are like that, just initially settle with your partner that no re-negotiation which would make it more pleasant for you is possible.

Find a better partner - I really need somebody to clean my toilet.

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