Comment by bluepoint | Hacker News Reader

Comment by bluepoint | Hacker News Reader

I think people are too gentle with this guy in this thread. He really does not deserve any of the attention that he gets and he desperately seeks. When he was in power he caused major damage, and as part of the current opposition he is basically a clown, looking for opportunities to get some more attention saying silly things. And since even in Greece he tends to get ignored (even by journalists who used to enjoy making fun of him), he is seeking for attention abroad. Like other commenters say, he raises some interesting issues about the society and then he proposes solutions that are at the same depth of political thought as discussions in a party (of the wild ones, with drugs and alcohol). He became important, when he was appointed as the minister of finance by the populist prime minister of a populist government, which came to power because people were really angry about the economic crisis. The prime minister, simply did not know much, he did not even speak english (he is still learning), or held any job before being a prime minister (yeah, Greek politics broke through the floor), but he finally realized his grave mistake and kicked him out, but not before capital controls were imposed in the country. Those capital controls were largely because of his useless role in the debt relief negotiations where he was basically avoiding to take any action or talking seriously to anyone, hoping that with this vague attitude (by the way, he termed his “creative vagueness” and he is proud of it, I am not making this up) the biggest leaders in europe will just bend the knee in fear of vague threats. He loves attention and he wants to be a sensation, which is not what you want from the guy who can kill the banks overnight (but admittedly less than your pilot or your surgeon). Some people that may not know him, may project on his image their own frustrations about life, politics or the economy. Maybe it is understandable, he is relatively photogenic and expresses himself with complete sentences (with verbs and nouns and propositions and all). But, really, we can all project our frustrations to people of higher quality, pretty please?

The Greek economy had its death warrant signed the second he was kicked out of the party.

He was one of the only people willing to stand up to the EU bullies & should be respected for that reason.

I think your comment here is a bit of a stretch, and is presented as fact instead of opinion.

Of course it is an opinion, just like any other comment. But the things I write about his background is a pretty common opinion which does have some evidence. He him self released audio of the euromeetings where he acts like an observer, in order to accuse the european leaders of ignoring him. Imagine the attitude of someone who goes to negotiate, while filming in order to show that the negotiations failed and it was not his fault. Which means he was intending for the negotiations to fail. The head of the comisión of the time said that he was basically not participating in the negotiations and he talked he would give long talks about nothing. He was eventually fired by the Greek prime minister, when things got really dangerous. There are articles about what he says and what he writes in Greece, and well, maybe it is my opinion that he talks bulshit, the people in power ignore him and he acts as if he is some kind anti-hero. He was playing games and bluffs, hoping that he does not need to do anything since he believed that the european union would do anything to save Greece in order to save the euro. So he was bluffing, vaguely obviously, that he does not mind to take Greece out of the EU (later it was found that he was preparing a home made currency, like home made beer, at that level). Then it turned out that the Germans were fond of the idea, and they were considering to propose a temporary (aka permanent) grexit for a couple of years. This is public info by the way, even if you believe half of these things, I see very little reason to praise this guy. I mean there are other people who stand against the system and win fights against it, in their minds, in their couches, but we don’t go and praise them, do we? Sorry, I do apologize, speaking about this guy, I just cannot not be sarcastic, he just brings this to people.

His opinions sound pretty sound to me. Problem with the EU was already decided to hit Greece with big austerity which did big damage to the Greek public.

Your rant on the other hand seem not very much more than an argumentum ad hominem.

Agreed. A smart, pragmatic economist pilloried for trying to rescue a country strip mined by vampiric corporatists doesn't make any sense except perhaps when someone had an agenda to shovel and/or is tribally against exploring some ideas because the current order works for them.

This is false. Greece had a public debt crisis not a corporate crisis. Didn't really have much corporates anyway.

You're right but miss the spirit.

Greece was indirectly forced to accept a poor deal by capitalists because of how they would have suffered if Greece refused and the german & french banks collapsed.

The ECB was under pressure from it's largest economies to give Greece a poor deal.

I'm from Greece and I already did my research on Mr Varoufakis. He's surrounded by his big ego and suffer from narcissism, I would declare him nothing but a book seller IMHO. He's selling himself and considered a dangerous person.

I have read his account (Adults in the room) and if even 10% of the behaviour of the EU negotiators is true (I have seen evidence to suggest it) then he is absolutely in the right to show how unwilling they were to negotiate. If you haven’t read that, then it’s worth reading. The home grown currency was a good idea that would have reduced EU leverage.

The EU presented a deal that was unsustainable to Greece but that prevented french and German banks from collapsing and refused to negotiate an inch.

I know who was in the wrong in that situation, and it wasn’t him.

I don't think name calling the EU as bullies advances anything. It is unsubstantiated and sounds like political speak and click-bait.

The problem of unsustainable debts of EU countries is complex. Debts cannot be fully forgotten as this sets an unsustainable precedent. Full austerity isn't sustainable either. Any reasonable solution will be nuanced.

By the way the same issue will arise soon enough to another EU country or to some US state. Will the US feds be bullies by telling states their debts cannot be forgotten?

> I don't think name calling the EU as bullies advances anything.

That might be true, but if 50% of what he said about his interactions with EU officials is true 'bullies' is kind way of describing reality. Greece was blackmailed, plain and simple.

Reading his full account (Adults In the Room) of his interaction with the EU, there’s no other word.

The EU blackmailed Greece into accepting unfulfillable debt obligations in order to prevent the french and German banks collapsing, it’s that simple.

I have no other word to describe such behaviour.

He refused to sign Greece’s death warrant and the EU crucified him in the media for it.

I appreciate his direction and goals but whenever he speaks all I hear is sophisticated noise.

Now he's very educated .. but I still can't extract any substance out of what he says. I'm probably to blame but I feel there's a pattern of people inviting him to talk without understanding what he says (just like me) but having a position of intellectual authority and noble goals it keeps going.

Parent is presenting the current common view of him in his country: that he 's a huge fraud

As of your opinion, seriously? you think his childish antics amount to "stnading up to bullies?". He was gambling with millions of fortunes. But that's easy to forget from afar and it looks good on film. In general, it would be nice if international audiences don't enable this guy -- The Left in greece is having another identiy crisis, and i'd hate to see someone like him taking the reins , cause then the future becomes very deterministic.

I have read his book and if even 10% of his interactions with the EU are truthful then bullies is accurate and he was completely in the right not to accept such disgusting terms.

Greece has never recovered from the deal they signed after kicking him out.

Actually it did. And it wasn't the first but 3rd such deal

Your narrative really doesn't sound real, and your argument of "ignore them!" comes across to me an attempt to psychologically bias other readers who are even less knowledgeable.

https://youtu.be/szIGZVrSAyc

Yanis in conversation with Chomsky, long but insightful.

Just because he spoke to Noam Chomsky, he does not make HIM Noam Chomsky. We are talking about someone whose actions have been in public view for a year and a half. Read about what the other side says about him to have a more balanced opinion.

Naturally, I'm not implying they are Noam Chomsky. Your rhetoric is very aggressive yet not really saying anything. I provide a source, and you don't.

Yiannis is like those guys who seek to have a photo with every celebrity on the red carpet. You can count the parade of famous names in this article (or any of his articles), as well as the pronouns "I", "We", "Me". Maybe he thinks he will win personal points by osmosis. In this article he fashions himself as some kind of hero left activist by listing a parade of platitudes, but he barely registers as a leftist in his country (in Greece the left has a special historical significance due to its role in the Greek resistance and the ensuing civil war -- his father was one of them). He also fashions himself as a minister of finance, but he had literally nothing to show for his short 6-month tenure (apart from a whole night of arguing with the eurogroup). That whole show he puts on, it kind of works with the media, as he obviously gets invited a lot, but in his talks and writings one can barely understand "what the hell he s on about".

This obviously sounds like an ad hominem, but it's really hard to distinguish the writing from the writer when it comes to his articles (which are everywhere, apparently). In fact this is common in his writings, and his articles consistently attract this kind of criticism.

In what way is this not an ad hominem?

Which of his specific points are you disagreeing with?

What platitudes?

What are examples of his writings or talks where he is not clear to you?

- like i said, it IS an ad hominem

- i didn't say i disagree. in fact i find no argument (except from the fairytale part that really isnt worth discussing) (PS @ameetgaitonde sums it up pretty nicely, really nothing more to say)

- The supposed recap of recent history, full with affectionate dimunitives like maggie. It's just bad writing

- Again, everything. I ve read a lot. Can you point one article that has an actual point? His articles are the GPT-3 of economics.

And i mean, its not just me, none of the comments here are about the text. Perhaps because theres nothing to talk about there.

I want to say this about the GPT-3 of economics, but I forgot! Glad I am not the only one!

I think incangold was implying you were spouting ad hominem.

I also think that that Varoufakis likes to give speeches, and that's about it.

In his long rants, there occasionally appears an interesting hypothesis, but this might be due to chance. And it is not followed up upon with any clear reasoning, but mostly with overly self-confident blather.

Fair enough, this article of his in the Guardian is a more polished piece.

Weasel word, weasel word, ad hominem, skip the specifics, end.

Gosh, this thread!

Come on nerds- we can do way better than this.

A response to what Varoufakis wrote would be a lot more interesting to read than ad hominems.

Agreed. I read the guy's autobiography and he was pretty big on excuses. He can continue sniping from the sidelines but he is an economic pundit who got the chance to apply his big ideas to run a country. He failed and was fired by his colleagues. If he's not going to re-think his ideas or himself after that, he's all ego.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com