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Comment by godelmachine | Hacker News Reader

>>pentel energel 0.7mm.

Thanks for mentioning this

I am currently on the lookout for new pen to make my standard usage pen.

My prime requirement is that it should be 1.0mm, or at a minimal 0.7mm, since I love the thickness. Secondary requirement is that it should be smooth.

I bought Baoke gel from Amazon and while I loved it a lot, was greatly disappointed to find it was of Chinese make.

Am now searching for something that’s of non-Chinese origin. So far, I have zeroed in on Uni-ball impact 1.0mm gel pen, and am shortlisting their 0.7mm gel pens as well. I would also give uni-ball 1.0mm and 0.7mm ballpoint pens a try as well in case I feel gel pens get used up faster, since always carrying a backup refill can be an inconvenience.Also, TCO with gel pens is always more than ballpoint pens.

Does anyone have any suggestions in mind?

Please proffer

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I really like the Pilot G2 pens - they use a nice flowing ink and are available in larger 1.0mm and 0.7mm sizes. They are also pretty easy to find (Amazon has them, I'm sure other stores would as well), so you shouldn't have troubles picking a pack up!

My go to pen for years has been the Sarasa Zebra 1.0. I liked it so much and was frustrated when office supply stores didn't carry it that I bought a carton from a distributor (288 pens!) I doubt I'll run out, but they do dry out eventually.

> they do dry out eventually

Perhaps make a simple humidor? Or solvent-idor?

That is an excellent idea.

I face the same crunch in the local market, so maybe I have to resort to the same. It would be great if the refills were in supply as well, and not just pens. I don’t see refills available for all Uni-ball pens available on Amazon.

>>simple humidor? Or solvent-idor?

Does it imply we make our own ink? Did not follow. Kindly elucidate.

The drying out is a function of the volatiles in the ink evaporating. In the ideal case it creates a "crust" on the end of the pen nib which then seals the ink cartridge, but in practice air still gets in.

When you first open these pins they have a small ball stuck on the end of them to prevent the pen from drying out on the shelf. If you could create a case that maintained an atmosphere that prevented evaporation of the volatiles it would keep the pen from drying out.

A 'humidor' keeps cigars from drying out by using a moisture adsorber to keep humidity levels relatively constant in the box. So same principle but applied to pens.

Can't you just buy them online? https://www.jetpens.com/search?q=Sarasa+Zebra+1.0&v=2

At the present time they seem to be reasonably available. That wasn't the case when I was looking for them a couple of years ago.

I have a Tombow Zoom[0] and I liked it so much I bought another, so now I have two. It's 0.5mm but it's a very bold line, especially on smooth paper like a Rhodia pad. It appears you can get 0.7mm cartridges for it too.

They are super classy and IMO great value for money. However they do have one problem, which may or may not affect you. The cap doesn't like to stay put on the back of the pen during robust use, e.g. sketching. This happens more with the silver model than with the black model for some reason.

For me it wasn't a show stopper, it just means I use different pens for bar sketching or, if I really want/need to use the Tombow, I remember to pocket the cap before I get going.

I'm also a big fan of the Energel though, just today I was marveling at how thin and precise its 0.5mm line is.

If you're into the Uni-Ball look I recommend trying the Eye, which you can get in Fine or Micro or Needle. I guess in the US it's called the Vision?[1] Might be too thin for you and the aesthetics aren't for everyone but the Micro is my go-to sketching-and-writing pen for when I'm out and about and might lose it. Works much better than the Tombow on toothy papers, like proper artist's drawing paper. They fit very nicely into many spiral bindings too.

Good luck with your search!

[0]: https://www.jetpens.com/Tombow-Zoom-505-META-Liquid-Ink-Roll...

[1]: https://uniballco.com/vision-1/

You may like the Bic Velocity. They are offered in medium 1.0 and, my favorite, bold 1.6mm. Very smooth and probably my favorite writing instrument. Everyone I have ever turned on to these pens have become fans. I prefer the blue ink but the black is just as smooth. Oh, and not of Chinese origin.

https://us.bic.com/en_us/bic-velocity-bold-retractable-ball-...

Thanks mate

Just looked them up on Amazon and 1.6mm looks awesome!

Oh, it is. It can get a little clump of ink on the ball from time to time but that is a small annoyance in relation to the excellent writing feel and quality. It lays down a lot of ink.

How long does 1 last?

1 week?

Oh no, months.

A 1.6mm pen running for months!

Gobsmackingly good!! :)

I just discovered that they are making another 1.6mm pen. Claims to be even smoother:

https://us.bic.com/en_us/bic-atlantis-bold-retractable-ball-...

> greatly disappointed to find it was of Chinese make.

May I ask why, as it is not among your requirements?

> Am now searching for something that’s of non-Chinese origin

Any specific reasons?

I personally try to avoid things manufactured in China due to ethical objections [0]. I don't expect everyone to do so, but I think it's the right thing to do, where possible.

[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2020/03/05/china-move...

I understand how you could feel compelled to take action against the perpetrators of forced labor camps. Slavery is abhorrent.

I am with you in wanting to contribute to ending slavery, and other race based methods of oppression. Certainly I do not want my consumer dollars to support oppression.

With respect to the subject of this article, is a China pen boycott an effective way to protest treatment of the Uyghurs?

The Forbes article you link to says "According to a new report by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, a non-partisan think tank, China’s been accused of forcing Uyghur Muslims to work at factories that produce goods for well-known global companies including Apple, Nike, BMW, Samsung, Sony and Volkswagen."

Shouldn't we be boycotting those companies which knowingly benefit from the oppression? I imagine you would say yes, and practice such a boycott, aided by some investigation of which companies are knowing beneficiaries.

How about the Australian government, currently run by the party in power that is supported by the "think tank" that is the source of your Forbes article's information about the Uyghurs?

Australia was one of only two nations to vote against a Jordanian draft resolution designed to hasten a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian dispute. Palestinians suffer a different but equally dismal fate to Uyghurs. They lose the right to earn an income when Israeli soldiers destroy olive farms that have been in their families for generations, and lack alternative employment because the Israeli occupiers deny them freedom of movement and freedom of importation of goods required for industry.

Should we be boycotting Australian made pens too?

Edit: Those who make this argument sarcastically remind me of [0].

I would rather do something than nothing, and if I can try to avoid companies which have suspect supply chains, than why shouldn't I?

[0] https://xkcd.com/2368/

> if I can try to avoid companies which have suspect supply chains, than why shouldn't I?

I think you should avoid suspect supply chains. How could you read my comment any other way?

I had read it as sarcastic originally, my apologies.

Thank you for your understanding. I am glad we can talk about a mass produced consumer product in the full context of the social relations of its manufacture.

A great thanks from Hong Kong. Fight we will with Soviet Union 2.0.

I boycott Chinese products or anything made in China for the same ethical reasons which Shared404 cited.

> I bought Baoke gel from Amazon and while I loved it a lot, was greatly disappointed to find it was of Chinese make.

...was the name not a giveaway? That's like complaining that Huawei devices are made in China.

No, the name was certainly not a giveaway, at least to me. Looking at the pictures on the catalog [0] I thought it was Japanese.

Later on when the product arrived, I wished to check if I could order refills in bulk from their website. Upon visiting their website, realization dawned upon me that it’s Chinese.

And in my perspective, it’s unfair to compare Baoke to Huawei. The latter is in the news since months now, and has become synonymous with nefarious snooping activities of the Chinese, in stark contrast to the former which is a pen maker.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Baoke-Rollerball-1-0mm-Medium-PC1848/...

> it’s unfair to compare Baoke to Huawei. The latter is in the news since months now, and has become synonymous with nefarious snooping activities of the Chinese

Sure, Huawei has been in the news for months. But Baoke is still a company whose name is in Chinese. We're not talking "Tencent" here.

Then again, if you were able to recognize whether a word was or wasn't Chinese, it's possible you'd feel differently about the moral taint of interacting with Chinese people.

>>But Baoke is still a company whose name is in Chinese.

Does not mean every non-Chinese person should recognize it's a Chinese word. What's your point?

>>if you were able to recognize whether a word was or wasn't Chinese, it's possible you'd feel differently about the moral taint of interacting with Chinese people.

Considering the misery they have caused to the world and Uyghurs, I would still feel all the same.

Your last sentence is a classic diversion tactic. It's obvious that GP doesn't have a problem with Chinese persons, but with the Chinese government and regime. That's like when people criticise Putin and someone replies "oh so you hate Russian people?"

Exactly.

From here onwards I am going to use "CCP", so that there's no scope for confusion about being acrimonious towards the Chinese people or their glorious culture.

It's a great civilization, rich in its heritage, but Mao has made things go south.

> It's obvious that GP doesn't have a problem with Chinese persons, but with the Chinese government and regime.

Not really; the boycott of Chinese goods is very much targeted at Chinese people and not so much the Chinese government.

Note that godelmachine hasn't made a criticism of the CCP at all; he's criticizing a pen company for being Chinese. On the assumption that that's not really what godelmachine thinks is wrong with Baoke, how would they respond to make him feel better about interacting with them?

I use a Schneider topball 845. It's very consistent, smooth, sharp and without smearing.

It's 0.3 mm though, but a rollerball so it leaves a more saturated and wider writing trail than a ballpoint pen.

Btw, I should mention tried all the pentel pens:

1.0 is too blobbly

0.5 is too scratchy

0.7 is just right

(imo)

Thanks.

I am a person who needs 0.7mm at the minimal.

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