Hacker News Reader

Comment by IgorPartola | Hacker News Reader

Oof. Red lights on the front are illegal because those go on the back. Blue lights are illegal on any vehicle that isn’t police. Green lights I believe are also illegal.

View on HN

And dangerous.

There are things that are formally illegal that we can argue merits of. But red light on the front is just a no go from any sensible perspective :-(

Note - I have a heavily nodded Soobie that's a lot of fun - I'm not at all claiming we shouldn't enjoy tinkering with our toys. But I also made myself familiar with Ontario highway act to ensure anything I do is safe and legal.

Agreed. It’s the same as with all those low profile turn signals that are basically on top of each other. There is a reason most jurisdictions require something like at least 12” between the turn signals to make it easier to tell which one is on.

In his first paragraph he says he wants to improve the visibility of his forward blinkers, so I feel this critique is undue. Like another poster said, I’m sure his only intention is to use them in an amber hue. Many LEDs on the market happen to support RGB – it’s okay to have a little fun with the available features in development.

True. But since the author didn’t discuss these nuances and people reading this might be tempted to make the same mod, it’s prudent to bring up this point lest someone else isn’t aware of them. From experience in these discussions on e.g. /r/motorcycles people who do these mods are unaware of these issues until someone points them out in about 3 out of every four posts and the 1 our of 4 will often state that they don’t care because they can outrun the cops on a 1000cc sport bike anyways.

Just being capable of other colors isn't itself illegal, if he runs with white or amber in the front it's perfectly fine.

That depends on which cop is evaluating you. Once a ticket is issued, great deference is given to the officer's judgement. Ask anyone with a heavily modified vehicle: rules are often secondary to the officers personal opinion.

Personally, I got stopped more than once, ticketed once, for my bone-stock exhaust on my vfr2000. All I ever did was give it a good polish.

If he's only running amber or white, there's nothing illegal going on. There isn't even a reason for them to be pulled over.

It's also possible your exhaust is illegal in your jurisdiction, many places have decibel @ distance requirements for exhaust and vehicle noise, which your exhaust may outside of even if it's stock.

That seems unlikely, given the bike (stock VFR exhaust are very modest, quite suitable for touring, your suggestion is ignorant and frankly insulting to the poster).

Many places the rules specifically state that OEM exhausts are legal regardless of how they test. I've always presumed that's the case because Ducati and Lamborghini owners are sufficiently cashed up to ensure legislation is written to accommodate them.

> That seems unlikely, given the bike (stock VFR exhaust are very modest, quite suitable for touring, your suggestion is ignorant and frankly insulting to the poster)

Forgive me for know knowing the exact noise levels of a specific motorcycle exhaust /s

Even if you're within explicit noise limits, many states also have laws about 'disturbing the peace' that you can be ticketed for regardless of actual noise, in particular when done intentionally such as revving while in neutral/clutched.

> Many places the rules specifically state that OEM exhausts are legal regardless of how they test.

Some, but not all. In Wisconsin, the only thing that matters is that it's "not louder than stock". In Florida, you cannot exceed a specific decibel rating at a specific distance regardless of stock dbA [0].

> I've always presumed that's the case because Ducati and Lamborghini owners are sufficiently cashed up to ensure legislation is written to accommodate them.

Maybe in some states. Many explicitly exclude motorcycles from exhaust noise limits as well.

[0]: https://www.semasan.com/resources/exhaust-noise-laws-state#F...

This is my understanding as well. Still bears pointing out. I know that my bike’s exhaust exceeds my state’s decibel rating, but not by an amount that I would worry about. I have ridden by and with others whose exhaust you feel in your chest more than you hear. I imagine if you do get pulled over for that specifically it would not be a fun conversation.

For the record, the cop who gave me the ticket never heard my bike. He was wondering through a group of our parked bikes looking for illegal mods. My polished muffler looked cleaner than the rest of the bike and so he thought it was a new addition. And the vfr 2000 was a very quiet bike.

Oh yeah of course. But I have rarely seen these mods done and not used on the road. Most times people who make them either aren’t aware of their local laws or don’t consider what it looks like when you have e.g. red blinking red lights on the front of their vehicle.

Having lights capable of displaying red or blue is illegal in my state.

Depends on state. In my state red is legal on the front if it never flashes, same with green.

I remember a year ago I got in a lyft and the driver talked about the little light they had given him. Apparently the first color it was set to got him pulled over by a rather confrontational officer.

Depends on the state. Here in Texas, many construction vehicles will have yellow and blue lights.

Only when used on public roads

True. But read the very first sentence of the article.

They're selectable. I'm sure the author has no intention of using the colors while in the road.

Based on... What exactly? :-)

Tons enough people with both safe and reasonable, and Crazt and illegal mods out there :-/

Based on site guidelines asking people to assume good intentions in others. Based on believing individuals should have the liberty to do what they want, as long as they aren't harming someone. Based on thinking people should be free to post their projects without having some internet rando come in, looking for an opportunity to prove how wrong they are.

Hmm, I agree with between 50% to 66% of that:

* "Assume good intentions" - fair enough :). I'll agree with that noble posture.

* "Free to post without randos commenting" - mmhm... if you don't want internet randos to comment, don't post it to internet randos. To a certain degree, the whole point of posting it to the intertubes rather than emailing it to close friends & family, is to reach internet randos :-/

* "Based on believing individuals should have the liberty to do what they want, as long as they aren't harming someone" - I fully agree in principle, but I also 100% believe that red forward lights are in fact "harming someone". As I pointed in a sibling comment, I don't believe that's a rule that's there for funzies. "Principle of least astonishment" is crucial in driving, and drivers have lifetime of reflexes based on "White lights are coming to me, red lights are moving away from me / braking". Can you imagine being on a lonely country two lane road, and then some red lights are coming your way in the opposite lane? Etc etc... scenarios are not difficult to figure out.

It's also not difficult to figure out scenarios in which he would never use red lights on public roads, but might use them at private events, like shows.

Given the lack of evidence that OP is an idiot, I'm going with the assumption that he's not going to run forward running red lights in public. I'm going to assume the only reason the color is changeable is to show off for fun.

BTW, your paraphrasing of my comment on random commentators is a mischaracterization. I'm not talking about all random commentors. Just the ones who can't see past their noses far enough to know their criticism is not universal.

I can’t speak for the author but lots and lots of people who do these mods, do them with the intention of using them.

Lots of people who do these kind of mods show their vehicles at shows or local meets.

Just like all those people with “off road” (no muffler) exhausts, right?

Yeah, swapping mufflers is totally the same level of effort as using a smartphone app to configure the light colors. So clearly this guy totally intends to cause mayhem on the streets.

If you haven’t swapped mufflers, you probably assume it is more complicated. It takes 10 minutes, 8 of which is finding your tools.

I have, actually, which is why I already knew it's that long, which is still an order of magnitude faster than changing the color of some lights in an app.

It seems unlikely you'd own a CBR 1000RR (this is a high-end sports bike, $17k new[1], top speed north of 200 mph) and not drive it on public roads.

[1]: https://powersports.honda.com/street/supersport/cbr1000rr

This is a very common dedicated track bike, but at that point you remove all lights entirely.

More typically you cover the lights with masking tape. Its cheaper.

For a road bike on the track, yet. For a dedicated track bike no, you remove the lights.

Only for a true race bike. For a track bike, why spend the money and make it harder to sell later?

I don't know anyone who has a dedicated track bike with headlights, lol. No track bike will be re-sold as a road bike, especially not something as serious as a CBR 1000RR. Once they're set up for the track with no headlights/indicators/brake lights, race exhaust, rear seat/pegs/brackets removed, number plate holders and various other brackets removed, slicks fitted, fairings painted etc etc they're too far gone to b re-sold for the road. No to mention most guys with dedicated track bikes are pouring thousands into them, not penny pinching on $35 headlight blanking panels.

Or at the minimum you wouldn’t worry about oncoming drivers being able to see your turn signals.

If you want to ride on the street you get the 500, 600 or 650. The 1000 is a dedicated track weapon and riding more than 30 minutes to an hour on the street with result in posterior and back pain (the seat is designed for full tuck/lean off, not the upright position you often use in traffic).

Remember that it’s about fast as a six figure sports car, so $17k for a track only vehicle is a bargain.

I've ridden a 600cc in the past, but don't have personal experience with the CBR / 1000RR model. Thanks.

That's _you_ and people like specifically, not "you" as in "everybody". The 500 and 650 are totally different styles of bike, and the 600RR is no less track focussed and ergonomically compromised than the 1000RR.

Lots of people ride "dedicated track weapons" on the street. The ergonomics are focussed, sure. But so are high heels - and nobody claims they are "dedicated runway footwear", people choose to wear them in spite of or even because of the challenge in wearing them - because the results are rewarding for those people.

I don't wear high heels, but I've owned an R1, and yeah it's uncomfortable. I also own a "dedicated track weapon" 125cc two stroke (a Cagiva Mito), and I ride it in traffic all the time because it's fun. Stupidly fun - big shit eating grin type stupidly fun commuting 15 mins thru city traffic to get to work type fun. And I do dumb shit like 1,200+km trips on it as well, in spite of owning much more sensible "touring bikes" (a Ducati Monster and a Honda VFR800), because for _me_ - sometimes the advantages of having my stupid little race bike for the twisty bits of road on the way is _totally_ worth the pain of riding it on the "boring bits of road" in between. And I'm not saying this as a flexible-bodied speed freak teenager - I'm 53, somewhat overweight, and need to preload on anti inflammatories to get through a full 10-12 hour day ride on a "full tuck" sports bike. But I do, and for _me_ it's worth it.

That $17k buys you a 2.8 second 0-60 time, and a sub 10 second 1/4 mile time - assuming you are capable of riding those (I'll totally admit it's way more capable a bike than I am a rider). It's astonishingly fast, and a bargain for a street legal toy. It's a good half second faster over the 1/4 mile than the fastest time for a stock Tesla or Lamborghini. Any half reliable sub 10 second street car has probably spent more than $17k in engine mods. A talented rider can run 9.8second quarters all night without voiding the warranty on a CBR1000RR...

I put 40k miles on a CBR 600 in the early 2000s. I lived in NYC at the time, and I rode most weekends and took annual trips to Florida, and rode it all the way to the Pacific once.

I sold it when I moved to an island in Alaska with few roads, but if I had stayed in the lower 48 I would have moved up to a 900 or 1000. I was very happy to learn on a 600, but eventually I kept wishing for more power at lower rpms.

Didn't say he wouldn't drive it on public roads. Only said the selection of light color is only limited for public roads. He could set it to one color for driving and another color for shows and meets.

> Green lights I believe are also illegal.

for R/G colourblind I guess?

Because it can easily look like a green traffic light. You might not think it’s a problem because traffic lights are normally not that low but at night on a street with no streetlights and with a hill involved...

Its usage is geographically specific, but this article [1] is a decent starting place. Green is commonly used to indicate that a particular vehicle is the command post for an incident, e.g. for fire fighting.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_vehicle_lighting

Reply on news.ycombinator.com