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Comment by nobrains | Hacker News Reader

And you did not follow-up why the accident report was not filed? I usually keep following up on such cases, until all issues are resolved. It is a net negative investment for me, since the time and effort I have to put in it, is not worth it, but I get 2 satisfactions out of it:

1) Hopefully whoever "played" will learn a lesson not to again.

2) Hopefully the overall problem (whether it is bad customer service, strong arm tactics, etc.) will slowly be fixed.

I guess in your case, you already used up your quota of fighting-the-system when you had to argue with both the cop and the tow-man.

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I considered filing a complaint with the police department, but I'm skeptical anything would have come of it. Ideally, I would have done it regardless. It's true that the root problem will not be addressed if people don't pursue things.

I think on net I do more than my fair share of tilting at windmills though. Ask me about self-storage companies sometime.

Now I'm curious about self storage companies. So I'm asking you :)

I'm so glad you asked!

It seems that the US self-storage market can be roughly segmented into two groups: UHaul Self-Storage and everyone else. UHaul is up to double the cost of their budget competitors like Public Storage. I'm budget conscious, so I quickly ruled out UHaul.

The other companies all follow the same template. I didn't find any locally-owned self-storage companies, only franchises. It's impossible to call the local franchise office directly, even after you've rented a unit. The phone numbers listed in ads and on websites have local area codes but they are forwarded to national call centers.

My first attempt to rent a unit, I find the best rate online, drive to the facility, and ask to rent a unit at the advertised rate. The manager has me fill out the application. The lock I'll need is $10. Sure, that's reasonable, I guess. Then she explains that there is a $20 move-in fee. No problem! This fee was hidden in a footnote on the comparison shopping site, but I spotted it and was willing to pay the 50% markup on the first month's rent. It's still a third of the cost of UHaul. But the amount she wanted to charge my card still seemed high.

"Well," she explained, "it includes a $15 monthly insurance premium."

"I don't need insurance."

"Everyone's required to have insurance."

I was indignant and walked out on principle. It was false advertising, plain and simple, and I refuse to reward that behavior with my business.

I now resolved to get an actual-for-real-no-takebacks final price over the phone before driving anywhere else. So I sat in my car and called a local Public Storage franchise. Or tried to. This is when I learned about the call centers. I was frustrated at having just driven 20 minutes for nothing, and getting a call center agent after dialing a local area code phone number did nothing to improve my mood. The agent asked for my first name. Then she asked for my email address. I balked. I explained to the agent that I just wanted to get an actual-for-real-no-takebacks quote to rent a storage unit at my local Public Storage franchise. She couldn't tell me. I'd have to ask the local manager, she explained.

"OK, can you just give me the phone number?" I asked, exasperated.

"Once I get done with you" she responded impatiently.

I was incredulous. Some of the quotes in this story may not be word-for-word accurate. But that is a word-for-word quote: "Once I get done with you."

In what is not my proudest moment, I informed her that I was quite certain we would be altogether done very soon, but first I would like to express what a dumpster fire I have found the self-storage industry to be. My prophecy came to pass as she soon hung up on me.

At this point, I was becoming less price-sensitive. I didn't embark on this venture thinking quality customer service would be a high priority for me, but I didn't realize how low the baseline was in this industry.

There was a reasonably priced place near my home, so I decided to drive there. I figured there couldn't be much more that could be unexpected at this point. I filled out the application and listened patiently as she explained the move-in fee and required insurance. I wasn't completely resigned, however, and I asked if I could forego the insurance, perhaps by signing a waiver. She told me the insurance was required by state law. I wasn't going to argue with her--I really just needed to rent a unit already--but that seemed highly unlikely. I rented the unit.

But when I got home, I did some research, and it turns out, she wasn't as far off as you might think. Ohio does have a state law devoted to self-storage unit insurance[1], believe it or not. But rather than mandating insurance, the law sets out a number of regulations that self-storage providers must follow in order to sell insurance to their customers. Normally, an agent must pass a test to be certified to sell insurance, but this law, which was passed at the behest of the self-storage lobby, makes a special cut-out so that minimally trained self-storage company staff can sell company-mandated insurance to their customers as a hidden monthly fee they can tack on to advertised prices without getting in trouble for false advertising.

And hey, what do you know? The business did not comply with several points in the regulations. For example, the literature describing the insurance did not include various mandated disclosures. So I went ahead and wrote a complaint to the Ohio Department of Insurance outlining the violations.

1. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3905.063

Your story got my upvote.

I felt my blood pressure rising just reading that. But I do have to applaud your complaint to the Ohio Department of Insurance. What I've noticed is that companies like these tend not to be up on 100% of regulations. If you're willing to spend an hour or two doing some research, you're likely to find some obscure violation that your local gov't is more than happy to use to make an example out of them.

> So I went ahead and wrote a complaint to the Ohio Department of Insurance outlining the violations.

What happened after that? :)

Ask me in a few months.

" UHaul is up to double the cost of their budget competitors like Public Storage."

This is a HUGE red flag, and you probably would be better off with uhaul. The "budget" guys will probably cost more once the hidden fees are paid.

UHaul is just more expensive for everything. They are not easier. They have plenty of hidden fees.

This is getting better. We will wait for your story about the part about the outcome of the complaint.

Wow. I feel like I dodged a bullet. I found a storage unit company 5 blocks from my place. It's the cheapest in the bay area. Run by some very nice folks. No shady anything, so far as I can tell.

Mind sharing the company? I'm in the south bay and looking.

See about info

The first time I bumped into Public Storage and their insurance I got out of it by asking for a waiver. Since then I've had success telling them that I have home owners or renters insurance, both of which normally cover household items in storage.

Your explanation of the state law they referenced was interesting, they way it was brought up to imply that you were mandated to pay this fee, and that the law did not say anything of the sort, and they were not following what was in the law!

I'd be happy never having to deal with Public Storage again.

Public Storage will also silently nearly double prices on you, and force you to physically move stuff out and back in to the unit to get the current list price back.

Same with Extra Space. They send postcards that look like spam to tell you your rate went up.

> "I don't need insurance."

While they do earn revenue for selling insurance, they need you to have it to protect themselves. Arson, theft, and storm damage is very common and the last thing they want is to get hit with a bunch of costly lawsuits from people who refused to insure themselves. Basically the same concept as renters insurance.

You usually don't have to buy theirs though, you can buy more comprehensive policies online for less and just provide proof of insurance.

> they need you to have it to protect themselves. Arson, theft, and storm damage is very common and the last thing they want is to get hit with a bunch of costly lawsuits from people who refused to insure themselves.

Then they should be the ones paying for the insurance, because they're the ones who need it. And given the small number of people who will file a lawsuit, versus the number who will make an insurance claim, that seems likely to be cheaper.

Some people may store items worth $500 while another stores items worth $25k in the same size unit. A one sized fits all policy isn't competitive on the low end, and many people already have coverage through homeowners/rental insurance they can use instead.

Exactly. If people want insurance they can get insurance. If the storage space wants to get liability insurance, they can get that insurance themselves (and if they choose to pass through the fee, they can bundle it into the advertised price and not try to pretend like it's for the benefit of the customer).

I'm sure that's what the industry would argue. However, the insurance offered does not cover theft, damage due to rodents, mold, or water damage. I imagine these are the cause of the vast majority of losses to self-storage tenants, so I'm skeptical.

Uhaul's SafeStor claims to cover:

Fire, Hurricane, Tornado, Wind, Vandalism, Vermin, Lightning, Smoke, Earthquake, Hail, Burglary, Building Collapse, Explosion, Leaking Water

My insurance covers the same, including named storms.

I'm fairly sure the one I had covered many of those as well... for the building, not just my stuff. IMO, the issue isn't that insurance is required or not but that they are using it to outright lie about prices in published advertisments. If a minimum level of insurance is required, that needs to be included in advertised price (and not just small print).

For the one I used they let you check a box that said you have external insurance that provides sufficient coverage, at least for a while until maybe 6 or 7 years ago when they stopped allowing that. It is possible that others are making that kind of transition and are violating existing laws or possibly existing laws aren't covering this type of case sufficiently. Centurylink lost a lawsuit a few years ago for similarly outright lying about prices (to the point of saying "this is your final cost" with a tiny asterisk leading to a long page that described additional fees).

It seems like it can be hard to tell when this type of common unethical buisness practices crosses the line into the deadly form described in the posted article. It also depends on where you are and in some places it is not that unusual for large international corporations to kill union organizers, for example.

My buying insurance doesn't prevent me from suing them.

The contract could include a provision that you can only pursue damages from them after relevant insurance claims.

> I considered filing a complaint with the police department, but I'm skeptical anything would have come of it.

Your instincts are correct, it is a waste of time. If the matter is serious enough, hire a lawyer and get a judgement against the officer or department. For everything else, let it go.

I had my car stolen a while ago. The police found it abandoned midweek, and had it towed to an impound lot. Then they waited until 4:45pm on Friday to tell me. The impound lot was an hour away, so I had to wait until Monday to get my car back. I also had to pay the tow lot for towing and storage of my stolen car for all the extra days.

Welcome to Chicago!

Then you have to venture to the mythical underworld of Lower Lower Wacker to get it back.

I always file complaints against police officers; they hinder their promotion options and in aggregate may help other citizens dispute their reports and accusations.

unfortunately do to police unions most complaints are dropped from an officers file after 6 months in many locals.

> 1) Hopefully whoever "played" will learn a lesson not to again.

In the case of police misconduct, the only person learning a lesson is typically the person filing the complaint.

People only tend to act so brazenly when they know that there will be no consequences, and their department will have their back. At best, your complaints will be ignored, at worst, you may face further retaliation.

I applaud you, but you're swatting flies. Even if that one officer won't do it again for a year or two, the rest of them will.

A year of people not getting shafted is an amazing achievement. Multiple by 100 you have a cultural shift.

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