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Comment by darkerside | Hacker News Reader

Just so you know, you're effectively complaining that people care about you too much. People can't put themselves in your shoes, but they try, and when they see you having a beer, knowing it could be bad for you, they try to support you in keeping away from it.

I can see how it would get annoying. If you view it as love, instead of nagging, it might get a little less annoying.

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It's virtue signaling, not caring. It's pretending to care and expecting to get pats on the head for it while actually being a burden to someone whose life is already overburdened.

It's the opposite of actually caring about a person. It's caring about them making you feel good about going through superficial "caring" motions while doing absolutely no good and lots of terrible harm when it is added up over time for the person with a chronic condition whom absolutely everyone wants pats on the head from for pretending to care while doing not a damn thing to actually make their life better in some meaningful way.

If people care, they do what actually helps you rather than insisting you make them feel good for superficial bullshit that only adds to your suffering.

> If people care, they do what actually helps you rather than insisting you make them feel good for superficial bullshit that only adds to your suffering.

This is a very simplistic way to look at people. A lot of people are misinformed or not thoughtful or don't fully understand your experience or frankly not that bright. The idea that people who genuinely care never do any damage is beyond ludicrous.

That's a ludicrous interpretation of my remark.

People who actually care will be okay with being told "This isn't helping. Please just stop." But that's not what the vast majority of people do.

The vast majority of people want it acknowledged that they are good people because they care about you and are trying to help and all this shit.

If they cared, they would drop it when asked instead of doubling down on trying to demand that you make them feel like a good person for fucking with your life and trampling your boundaries.

I also have a serious condition. No, most people absolutely do not actually care about my welfare.

I have tons of firsthand experience with this and I'm not budging one inch.

Based on other comments, I was under the impression that some people wanted zero unsolicited feedback. This instead sounds like you don't want people to keep offering suggestions after you tell them to stop. The former would make for a really cold society. The latter is completely understandable. I would tell the repeat offenders to fuck right off.

Support groups are a good place. Lots of forums dedicated to most chronic conditions. Much safer to ask advice in those places.

I find it’s often due to people getting frustrated and not knowing his deal with it in an emotionally helpful way.

See it in kids constantly, adults often.

Kids getting mad at the cat for not liking being dressed in doll clothes.

Yes you care about the cat. However now everyone including the cat is unhappy.

Childish behavior, except it still hurts when loved ones get mad at you for not recovering fast enough.

Parents offered me some pills (blood thinners) that might solve some problems.

They got very upset when I refused without a doctors consent.

Only thing I wanted from them was emotional support. Instead I had go cut them off for a year.

All because they couldn’t fix me.

Within a range, you get to interpret the actions of others. It's like one of those optical illusions where you can see a rabbit or a duck, but not both at the same time. One of those illusions will anger you and sap your strength. The other will connect you with another human being on some level, however superficial, which is wired to make you feel happy and fulfilled. Neither is the full vision of truth. But you are free to choose the lens through which you view the world.

The ironic thing is that the original complainant is making this exact same point about those who give this advice. Typically they're not trying to connect - they're trying to fulfill their own needs without understanding the other's needs.

None of us fully understand each other's needs. You can get frustrated about that, or educate others. It's a personal choice. I don't judge anyone either way (or at least, I agree they are free to make their own decisions), but having done both, I certainly have my own observations about which of those leads more effectively to happiness.

That’s not “caring about you too much”. It’s not knowing what’s appropriate.

As someone who had to follow a strict diet for a while, I know for a fact that the people who stuck their nose into my allowed indulgences did not care about me nearly as much as the people who actually cared and knew I was capable of managing my own diet.

How is it that you know that for a fact?

Edit: Please don't downvote a clear question. The truth is, you can't know another's intentions in most cases. It's very possible parent does know them in these cases for other circumstantial reasons. In which case I'd ask, how do you know that extrapolated to everyone else who asks those same questions?

If you meet an overweight person, do you begin conversation by telling them to eat less? If not, why don't you? They obviously get too much calories and may benefit from your advice. And they can always tell you to stop giving them advice if they don't like it.

Seriously, some people have no common sense and/or are just arrogant. Jumping into a situation where you have minimal information and assuming to know best is the hallmark of a fool.

> Just so you know, you're effectively complaining that people care about you too much

I'm sure someone cares, but the majority of such folks? Nope.

I was once watching a crappy move, but it had one gem in it. The protagonist had lost the use of his leg in the Civil war, and he sought compensation for it, and received a lot easier than expected. Throughout the movie, he keeps wondering why it was so easy to get the money - he expected a fight. Towards the end, the revelation hit. They didn't pay him because they cared about him. They did it because they wanted to feel better about themselves. They did it so that they could walk away feeling tall.

And so it is with most advice: They do it because it makes them feel like they've done a good deed, and who knows - someone may even benefit from it? If they didn't, then no harm done.

That last sentence is quite wrong, though.

After hearing this, I got fairly good at figuring out who is trying to help vs who is trying to walk away tall. A little extra engagement with the person can usually reveal this.

I've learned from enough experience - both in giving and in receiving advice - that when you try to help someone, you should take on the burden on yourself. It becomes your responsibility to understand the pain points of the other person, know what he's tried, etc. This is exactly what random advice typically isn't. It's well known that saying "I had a similar problem" and talking about it is not empathizing[1]

One of the worst jobs I had involved a very knowledgeable person who would try to give advice whenever I was stuck. His advice often didn't work because he didn't understand the problem well, and made assumptions, etc. Every time he tried to help it was a huge time sink - to the point that I would mention my problems only when he wasn't around. Not exactly analogous to this situation, except to point out that this person never really understood the burden of helping someone. When you help someone, work with the person till the problem is resolved (or till you can't help). He failed as a teammate because of this.

(For those who recognize the movie - yes, I am taking liberties).

[1] Seriously - this is standard advice you'll find everywhere: When someone tells you their problems, do not respond with how similar your problems were - took me years to understand why.

I know exactly what you mean. This one time, I was talking with this guy and he wouldn't stop going on and on... Just kidding :)

I really like this story. It's definitely a tell when somebody only wants to help when it's easy and gives up right away. Although, that can also be a factor of them realizing that helping is beyond their ability, which can be different from not caring.

I think maybe a better tell is, how much time do they spend asking questions, versus giving "advice". Listening is nice but not always impactful. Talking is cheap and often irrelevant. But a good question can change your entire worldview. Or better yet, make you change your own worldview.

Did your coworker help everyone in this way, or was it just you?

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