Hacker News Reader

Comment by 2mur | Hacker News Reader

I'm not going back to linux on the desktop until it can sleep my laptop reliably. OSX is so nice for that. Just close the lid and go... I can't imagine working any other way now.

View on HN

It isn't that sleep works reliable on OSX, it's that sleep works reliably on a Mac.

You see, when you buy a Mac you know every feature (including sleep) has been tested thoroughly. When you decide to install an OS on a computer you already own, you put the onus to test on yourself. I don't understand why people continue to make this unfair comparison. If you want a linux computer where sleep just works, by a preinstalled linux computer. System76 makes fantastic ones. They thoroughly test every feature. They test when new versions of Ubuntu get released. You'll have the same experience you have when buying a Mac or when buying an HP.

That makes a lot of sense.

Are there any major PC manufacturers that ship with Ubuntu? I imagine the day you go to Sams and buy an Ubuntu system will be a big milestone for Linux.

Dell did ship Ubuntu awhile back. Not sure if they still do.

Not for laptops anymore, as far as I know. They still sell their Inspiron netbooks with ubuntu, though (8.04).

I see 4 laptops and 1 netbook at http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/laptops#facets=80770~0~179... (use OS filter if link doesn't apply) different models running 9.10, 10.04, 10.10. For some reason the link on dell.com/ubuntu only shows the two Latitudes, not the three Inspirons.

Not major manufacturers, but also see Zareason and System76.

It may be an unfair comparison, but it's still very relevant (although on the other hand you do have a point- there are preinstalled systems you can buy the same way you would with OS X or Windows).

That's a good point. I actually had sleep working really well on 9.04 then upgraded to 10.04 and it broke. It's that type of pattern and the frustration that is worth the premium Apple tax I guess.

Even dedicated Ubuntu system providers like System76 run into hardware problems.

Ubuntu 10.04 removed (previously working) support for System76 Starling Netbook wireless cards. It was several months before they had a workaround, allowing their customers to finally upgrade to 10.04 just in time for 10.10. System76 then said they felt 10.10 was not ready for their Netbooks, and said their users should remain on 10.04 until further notice. That post was stickied until yesterday.

It's a wildly varying experience that depends on your hardware and the distro. What I've noticed with Ubuntu, though is that hardware support keeps getting better with each new version. Before I buy any new piece of hardware, I check for Ubuntu support.

I haven't had any problems with suspend/resume on Apple hardware with Ubuntu in the last three years or so

the same here. only battery life isn't as great as under os x.

I've been able to sleep my laptop (mostly) reliably since 2006. It all depends on what hardware you have. The "mostly" is because in 2007, ATi released an update to their catalyst binary blob driver that broke sleep and hibernation. I try to steer clear of non-open source drivers now.

Arrandale chipsets (Core i5 and i7) have suspend resume issues with the intel graphics chipset. This affects systems like Dell Latitude. (https://bugs.freedesktop.org//show_bug.cgi?id=28739)

The fix is available in kernel 2.6.38 ( Ubuntu 11.04 is 2.6.37)

I run Ubuntu 10.10 with a PPA 2.6.38 kernel to get around the problem. Please note this problem is at the kernel level - going Fedora will not help.

Ubuntu is more or less the only OS I use currently - sleep/suspend/resume issues still exist. I do hope they integrate projects like TuxOnIce, etc. into the mainline - I would gladly pay couple of hundred dollars to have working sleep/resume on Ubuntu laptops. Considering that Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer, Asus would have about 15-20 models at one time (considering the motherboard + wireless), I'm surprised there is no third party company providing supported Linux - for companies like KSplice, this could be another line of business.

11.04 is using 2.6.38

true - my mistake. Although you should also know that 2.6.38 and 11.04 has a mysterious power management bug that increases laptop battery usage significantly.

http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?48656-Mobile-Users...

All said and done, IMHO it's not worth upgrading to 11.04 right now.

I can't even say that my macbook sleeps reliably. There are some times where closing the lid fails to put my computer to sleep and manages to kill it's battery while it's in my bag. Occasionally, I'll open the lid and my macbook will not come out of sleep mode.

Sleep doesnt work reliably on my first-gen MacBook (running Snow Leopard)

I've got a Thinkpad running Ubuntu 10.10 that sleeps reliably and a second-gen MacBook Pro running OSX that doesn't.

I've been running Ubuntu on three systems for quite some time: a unibody Macbook Pro, a Lenovo T61p (t60p before that) and a System 76 netbook. Sleep works great on all three (be sure to install the mactel PPA for the MBP).

That being said...I know for sure there is a configuration out there that doesn't work...that is the beauty and benefit of a locked down ecosystem like Apple. They control everything and absolutely can guarantee the experience....and to be honest, if Apple can't deliver on that promise with the compromise of choice, they shouldn't be in the game.

So, I don't really think it is an issue, or nearly as big a one as people make it out to be. I find that if I stick to the bigger Linux friendly manufacturers (Lenovo) or the ones many people will buy (MBP), you will have good luck.

This, along with automatically using an external monitor when one is plugged in, is the reason that I switched to the Mac for laptops.

As others are saying, it sounds like the suspend/resume feature works well now. I can add that at least on my multi-monitor desktop Ubuntu 10.10 will reliably automatically adjust when I plug in or unplug one of my monitors. I found this out accidentally and it was really a pleasant surprise.

Of course, as always with Linux, both these features probably depend on how well your hardware is supported.

Of course, as always with Linux, both these features probably depend on how well your hardware is supported.

...make that "as always with any operating system".

I recently started digging into Arch and getting sleep to work was surprisingly easy. (pm-suspend and modifying handler.sh for power button/lid events).

works for me on ubuntu. for 2 different lenovos and a dell.

That's how it works on my laptop... (running Narwal).

There is apparently a lot of hate among the downvoters today. Disagreeing with a pro-OSX comment is death here.

it does just exactly that on my hp dm4.

This comment implies as well that laptops didn't sleep reliably before OSX.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com