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Comment by geon | Hacker News Reader

> there's talk about $5-a-gallon

To put this into perspective, prices are nearly twice that here in Sweden: http://www.bensinpriser.nu/ and Germany: http://gasoline-germany.com/statistik.phtml

At 14.30 SEK/l, that is 8.80 USD/gallon.

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To put this into perspective, the reason your gas costs so much is that Sweden/Germany/other European countries have incredibly high gas taxes.

The supply of oil and gas is pretty smooth - Nearly every country pays the same price (with some obvious exceptions - islands, etc.) The reason prices vary so much across US States and Euro countries are taxes placed on the government. If the production costs are really $5 a gallon, the expect to pay $12-$13 at the pump, if Sweden decides to level the same amount of gas taxes.

And the reason for high taxes is said to be to compensate for the commercial disbalance. So high taxes wouldn't be needed if gas could be produced locally.

And the reason for high taxes is said to be to compensate for the commercial disbalance.

A counterexample to that is Norway, which has abundant domestic supplies of petroleum but still taxes gasoline heavily.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax#Norway

Actually I think that's just the other side of the coin. While most of Europe has recognized that the public is better off levying heavy taxes to discourage expensive imports, Norway levies heavy taxes to allow for greater quantity of expensive exports. The net effect on society in both cases is positive.

I don't get it. Why couldn't Norway export oil expensively, and yet make gas cheap domestically?

Isn't that what many states in the Persian Gulf do?

Why is cheap gas a good thing? Cars are far less safe than the alternatives, and also generally speaking result in less exercise. So on two different fronts, you have overall more death and injury resulting to society from cheap gas, while more expensive gas pushes people on to safer transit like trains, and encourages people to walk improving overall health. Minimizing time people spend driving in cars is a good thing.

Is there evidence that folks really do use mass transit? Or just drive less? or just pay and complain?

I never meant to imply that cheap gas must be a good thing.

I just didn't see the supposedly necessary connection between expensive oil exports and expensive domestic gas prices.

To add a bit more perspective: Norway's a fair bit higher. I'm paying about 14.60 NOK/l, which is 10.42 USD/gallon.

Which is kind of strange given that Norway's an oil producer...

Its a similar case in Canada, even though we produce and export oil, gas price here are usually a dollar more than US gas price because of higher taxes.

Yeah, but you get it back when you go to the doctor.

Sweden's public transportation was impressive, though. Compare a map of Gothenburg's light rail/tram:

http://www.isa-sociology.org/congress2010/imagenes/public-tr...

With a map of Houston's:

http://www.urbanrail.net/am/hous/houston-map.gif

This isn't an exaggeration. Houston really only has one rail line. Other major cities such as Phoenix also only have one line:

http://www.valleymetro.org/images/uploads/lightrail_publicat...

And both cities are much, much bigger than Gothenburg.

We're paying around $1.30-$1.35 a liter here in Toronto, which is the equivalent of about $5 a gallon, and that's in CAD.

Glad we aren't anywhere near your prices... yet. Even sadder: we produce much of our own oil!

How far does the average Swede live from the workplace?

I don't have any reliable data other than my own experience. I would guess 10 - 30 km.

Sweden is a sparsly populated country. Compared to Germany, we have a tenth of the population spread over a larger area. Even though Large parts of the north are practically empty, and the population is concentrated to the cities, the difference is noticeable.

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