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> drink one coffee and stay for 4 hours, meet people, chat, discuss etc

I've been to Vienna a few times, and while I agree that the coffee houses are nice (though a bit posh for my taste), I did not see anybody talk to strangers or discuss philosophy or something. It was mostly just friends or relatives going out for a drink, like anywhere else.

Did I go to the wrong places? Where is this mythical coffee house where ideas are exchanged and challenged?

> Where is this mythical coffee house where ideas are exchanged and challenged?

Online? College campuses?

But seriously, our culture and society are different now in lots of ways, for better and worse. And larger, and more diverse.

The economy is different. Society is different.

I've been to the "anti cafe" in Rome, and the idea is that you pay for the time you spend there instead of for what you consume. It was 4 euros per hour, capped at 16 euros per day, and (potentially unlimited) snacks and coffee are included. I believe they have branches in Paris and Strasbourg[1]

[1] https://www.anticafe.eu/en/

Seems like a reasonable approach to ensure people don't stick for too long unless they need to, especially when there's free WiFi.

Berlin too

https://bekech.com/

Cafes are like that in Montreal: buy a coffee, stay as long as you like.

But....it’s nothing like the stories of old. Mostly people alone together, as the OP says. Occasionally you talk to a stranger. No wide ranging public political discussions.

No wide ranging public political discussions.

These days getting into a political conversation with a stranger is very, very dangerous. You might find yourself doxxed on Twitter by a hate mob before you'd even finished your coffee.

You have been downvoted, but you are wrong. Most of the strangers who will aproach you on a political topic in public usually want you to sign something, or they are outright lunatics who try to drag you into their world.

And I wish it would be different. I think I had a nice and interesting political conversation with a stranger once in the past decade. That means it is not impossible, but it is hard. A good cafe certainly can do things to create the right atmosphere for this to happen more often tho.

Most of the strangers who will aproach you on a political topic in public usually want you to sign something, or they are outright lunatics who try to drag you into their world.

Even having a political conversation with a friend in a place you can be overheard carries a certain amount of risk.

I’ve seen similar things.

If you disagree with this concept, go to a west coast US metropolis and and try to have an open private discussion about something taboo (e.g. abortion) where you’re openly against the status quo. Odds are good you’ll hear about it.

For example, I used the term “wife beater” to refer to a tank top, in a private conversation, at a Berkeley bar. Within seconds I had a total stranger come up to me and tell me I shouldn’t use that term.

Your belief sounds rooted in fear. Can you actually cite cases where doxxing & abuse happened over a conversation with a stranger in a cafe? And even if such cases exist I would confidently guess you’re more likely to die in a car crash than get doxxed on twitter by a hate mob. And no one is avoiding ever using cars or being a pedestrian on a street with car traffic to save their lives.

Maybe knowing in 2020 one can experience rabid social media mobs, and the newness and degree of its terror is skewing our idea of how likely this kind of event actually is. But I see this view presented regularly as though every one of us lives in active risk of being a single slip of the tongue away from ruining our lives. And it’s so strange and not in line with the reality I live in.

Remember that guy who was doxxed and fired because he made what somebody thought was the (now off-limits) OK symbol?

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-ove...

No, the GP's scenario is not at all implausible. To think otherwise is to be oblivious to the on-edge nature of our times.

You didn't respond to the substance of my comment. It's possible for someone to misunderstand you and for you to lose your job over it. It's also possible to die in a traffic accident. The former is probably more rare than the latter but the former seems to be legitimately terrorizing many people based on the frequency of internet comments I see about it.

Upon googling it, the amount of outcry as a response makes it pretty obvious to me that it's considered exceptional and not normal. Does anyone have any aggregated studies about social media and firing?

> "it pretty obvious to me that it's considered exceptional and not normal."

Is it? Note that the person here accused is both Jewish and Mexican: https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/09/04/lawyer-accused-flashi...

Other examples exist of people being removed from their jobs for the same if you Google for it, though many of those are more ambiguous.

That may be. However, it strikes me that most if not all of these cases are US-based. The world works differently in different places.

As opposed to 1600s coffee houses where having the wrong political or religious beliefs could provoke a duel or incite an actual mob.

The Baroque Cycle series does a good job of describing the atmosphere of the old coffee houses.

That's very interesting. (Pre-Corona) I used to spend a lot of days working in coffee shops all around the city. Never at all felt any time pressure, whether in a small independent shop or a Starbucks/Costa type place. That's helped of course by the better shops making good food, too.

Which city are you in? I suspect the time pressure might be of a different magnitude in a city with a denser population, where the rent per sq ft might also be significantly higher.

in the northeast usa (boston, nyc, ohio), staying a couple hours is fine in most coffee shops. and lots of people are interested in open ended discussions. but we're also wary of getting drawn into something toxic, so you need to be delicate when you say hello - conveying openness without forcing the conversation

there was a brief golden age before laptop batteries hit the 10-hour mark when power outlets forced people to collaborate a bit and those conversations "just happened" - it just felt polite to ask people what they were working on

it's harder today, but if you're respectful and warm, they still happen. i had positive experiences in paris (and a french coffee shop in mexico) as well

What is the source of the economic pressure? Landlords?

How does commercial renting compare in London vs Vienna?