Researchers discover new salivary glands in the human head
sciencealert.com
sciencealert.com
But in 2018 there was a similar news about Interstitium: https://www.livescience.com/62128-interstitium-organ.html
In 2017 there was mesentery: https://www.livescience.com/57370-mesentery-new-organ-identi...
Now we have this. So, reading this left me with one though "hidden in plain sight" and wondering what else is there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmaris_longus_muscle
~14% of humans lack this muscle.
Other deviations range from colorblindness all the way to lack of a cerebellum entirely.
Humans are quite variable, even when healthy.
The Visible Human Project
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150601122445.h...
Wow. How could we possibly have missed this? Medical researchers must tend non-quantitative.
>Although researchers already knew that there is fluid between individual cells, the idea of a larger, connected interstitium — in which there are fluid-filled spaces within tissues — had been described only vaguely in the literature, Theise said. The new study, he said, expands the concept of the interstitium by showing these structured, fluid-filled spaces within tissues, and is the first to define the interstitium as an organ in and of itself.
A new ligament discovered next to the ACL
It's easy to spot them on a 3D render where they are bright yellow. In real life, it's just different textures of meat with slightly different hues.
>Doctors May Have Found Secretive New Organs in the Center of Your Head
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/19/health/saliva-glands-new-...
>Dr. Alvand Hassankhani, a radiologist at the University of Pennsylvania, said he was hesitant to label the structures “new organs.” In addition to the three pairs of known large salivary glands, some 1,000 minor salivary glands are sprinkled across the lining of the mouth and throat. They are more petite and tougher to find through imaging or scanning than their heftier cousins. It’s possible that the Dutch researchers just happened upon a better way to image a set of underappreciated minor glands, Dr. Hassankhani said.
Good one.
"Doctors identify new salivary organ".... maybe? Then I wouldn't have to open their article and I can go on my merry way. Big ups for science, thumbs down for click bait.
Over many decades, we've seen this all too often with news releases about cancer research. It's done great harm.
Preliminary data – based on a retrospective analysis of 723 patients who underwent radiation treatment – seem to support the conclusion radiation delivered to the tubarial glands region results in greater complications for patients afterwards: a result that not only could benefit future oncology, but also seems to strengthen the case that these mysterious, overlooked structures really are salivary glands.
So we already have existing data we can kind of "retrofit" to this new mental model and get meaningful feedback that this new conclusion seems to fit with verifiable experience. That's actually pretty darn cool for a variety of reasons.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/brain-c...
That's not a knock on medicine or science, just a simple statement of fact. That is, there is plenty we have yet to understand.
My father was in the hospital for two days with vertigo. He was so frustrated waiting for specialists to show up that he checked himself out.
I was pissed - he's notoriously awful at listening to medical advice. I said, "Did you even wait for them to try the Epley maneuver?"[1] Turns out they didn't even suggest it. I only know about it because my grandmother has it done regularly for her vertigo. And it seems to have solved his problem.
I'm sure it's already in the threads, but that recalls the old joke, "What do you call a medical student with a D average?"
"Doctor."
[1] https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-t...
The dumbed-down article seems to miss that inadvertent irradiation of the tubarial glands contributes to dry mouth in patients with cancer.
How does something becomes an organ after 100 years of modern technology? Just to clarify I meant would it be possible in future that part of let say heart could become an organ?
The discovery, therefore, has practical uses.
... The brain?
:P
In all seriousness, this is really cool. It's incredible how we still keep finding out new things about our body. You'd've thought that there wouldn't be much left to find at the macroscopic level, and yet...
The human head, or the human gut?
I suppose I'm wondering about the potential for something like this to happen again.
2017: It's Official: A Brand-New Human Organ Has Been Classified
https://www.sciencealert.com/it-s-official-a-brand-new-human...
The neurological system for the gut is so complex that it gets called a "second brain" in some literature.
https://www.amazon.com/Second-Brain-Groundbreaking-Understan...
I mean, if you include the anatomy of brain, the head is conclusively more complicated.
But if you consider the brain, and perhaps the nervous network to be a single, extremely complex part, then I suppose you'd still have to believe the head is the more complicated of the two, because of the eyes, and the array of muscles around the face...
Was just musing, tbh.
Stomach acid is contents of the gut but also part of the digestive tract. An even more thorny issue: the microbiome, which is a hot topic in research.
And that's a complication the head lacks.
My personal opinion is that modern medicine doesn't really like to think about the systems, because it's easier to look at something in isolation. Sometimes this is helpful - simply the problem space and you can simplify the solution - but much of the time it is inappropriate.
Now doctors mostly don't make house calls because we use so much tech for diagnostics that you can't carry it with you. Star Trek's Dr. McCoy and his tricorder was modeled on the "little black bag" pattern of medicine and it married the idea of tech to that model and he could diagnose anything with the super advanced gadget in his hand while going to where the patient was. This is not how it has gone in real life.
In the process of making house calls, a doctor casually picked up a lot of information by observation that didn't require him to ask questions. He saw how clean your house was. He saw if you lived alone or with family. Etc.
Medicine has moved to a place where we treat people like specimens in a petri dish and as if their physical health is a separate question from the rest of their life. The reality is these are deeply intertwined and cannot be neatly separated.
The systems we need to be looking at are not just systems within the body but how the systems those bodies exist within impact the human body. And we aren't even really thinking in that direction yet.
I mean this question with genuine curiosity
"These tubarial glands were seen to exist in the PSMA PET/CT scans of all the 100 patients examined in the study, and physical investigations of two cadavers – one male and one female – also showed the mysterious bilateral structure, revealing macroscopically visible draining duct openings towards the nasopharyngeal wall."
Curious if this is present in all humans or a local evolution.
There are no instances of a new organ appearing in a local human population.
For example the little muscles at the point of the ears (Darwin's tubercle). It has been documented to be present in about 10.5% of the Spanish adult population, 40% of Indian adults, and 58% of Swedish school children.
However, TIL about the Palmaris longus muscle which is absent in around 14% of people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmaris_longus_muscle
https://medium.com/words-escape-us/are-japanese-intestines-l...
I don't know if this Mysterious Organ will be real, but the fact it's up for discussion is the problem.
Medical science is an incredible thing, but science, by definition, does not have all the answers.
A small part of me is actually somewhat surprised, that people (both lay, and professional) are surprised.
Though I am not the best placed commentator to champion this view.
I don't find that surprising. You have to do the early phases of drug development in model systems like cell cultures for practical reasons: It makes evidence obtained more reproducible and has less ethical concerns than experimenting on humans immediately. It's like how software components usually get implemented and tested in simplified environments (e.g. unit tests use doubles), and just like with drugs, sometimes we find that software components interact with each other in unexpected ways when combined into a whole.
For the initial approval, we have this very formal process, the FDA wants this kind of data from trials of this size to show this statistical level, etc. All very scientific-looking.
But once it's on the market, random doctors try it out for other conditions. If it seems to work they tell their buddies, tweak the mixtures, share anecdotes. If it becomes widespread, some industry club records this for the purpose of arguing with insurance companies. I am told this off-label use now constitutes the majority of drug prescriptions. All based on (as far as I can tell) no statistically driven testing at all, just stories.
(To be clear, I'm not at all surprised that drugs have "off-target" effects, and may be very useful for things their inventor never imagines. I'm just a bit shocked how pre-modern our system for collecting this knowledge appears to be. But not an expert, and would love to know more.)
I'm not an expert, but I imagine any more advanced system would be extremely problematic from a data protection point of view (think HIPAA etc.). In a study, patients sign multiple pages of legalese to allow the researchers to collect all the required data. You don't have that with regular patients in a GP's office.
More generally, how do we know it isn't mostly garbage? That seems to be the consensus about most pre-20th-C medicine, and those guys weren't idiots, they were just trying things out and sharing ideas...
If anyone is interested, the history of anabolic steroids is almost comical... https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/ster...
And the period of time over which the change took place, is actually quite remarkable.
What does that even mean? Nobody's claiming that modern medicine is anywhere close to perfect but the "dark ages" medicine was Humorism, blood letting and faith healing. Surgeons didn't start washing their hands before childbirth until the 19th century. It's really weird to look back at the mind-boggling progress we achieved in the past 200 years and conclude "we're basically still in the dark ages!"
Leaching is a process in which you percolate a liquid (like water) through something, and it picks up chemicals and carries them out. Brewing coffee, for instance.
Here's the spectrum of medical knowledge:
-----------------------------------------
Here's where we were in the dark ages:
--|--------------------------------------
Here's where we are now:
-------|---------------------------------
Here's where people like to think we are:
------------------|----------------------
In this scenario it seems like what you're saying and what your parent said are both true (it is true both that medicine is much closer to the dark ages than we'd like to think, and also that we know a great deal more than we knew in the dark ages).
Well, perhaps we understand basic algebra pretty well.
Here's where we were in the dark ages:
-|---------------------------------------
Here's where we are now:
---|-------------------------------------
Here's where people thought we were in the dark ages:
----------------------------|------------
Here's where people like to think we are today:
------------------------------|----------
"Dialysis? My God, is this the dark ages!"
(One of my favorite chapters is imagining 1000 years into the future, where rock and roll is basically only remembered for one artist, who might that be? And why it won't be Elvis or the Beatles.)
Is it possible that we still miss a large discovery in medicine, akin to the introduction of evidence-based treatment, hygiene, inoculations or the discovery of DNA?
The arrogant assumption of an infinite wisdom of the present is one of the strongest there is.
Ptolemaic astronomy looked right until Galileo came along. It matched observational measurements, just with an unhelpful set of assumptions. We're Ptolemy on countless things whose Galileos haven't been born yet.
It's unsettling to think we're all stupid in ways we'll never know, I know. Sorry about that.
Also, in the book "The King of Hearts" which describes the history of open heart surgery, the first open heart surgeries were done by sewing the circulatory system of two people together (usually mother and child). that was in the recent past.
The point I was making was that in our short lifetimes common medical practices have change directions 180 degrees. The guy who drank h pylori was in our lifetime.
I wonder what common problems and solutions we have today will be changed in the coming 30 years? Maybe there will be a cancer or fat pill and we can eat what we want. Maybe sugar will be banned. Maybe longevity might be conquered? Maybe covid-19 will be viewed like the black plague, which is well understood now.
EDIT: Joe Rogan #1272 - Lindsey Fitzharris
In another discussion bred from boredom where some friends and I were trying to define entire fields of study in a single sentence (Economics is the allocation of scarcity) one doctor said, "Medicine is about controlling swelling." His response (he was a surgeon) kind of made your point that we imagine that doctors are fixing things and he is saying that he spent most of his time trying to get the body to make it better and not worse.
I started having really bad insomnia more than a year ago. I went to see a bunch of doctors. Initially, I was given low dosage sleeping pills, which didn't help much. I went to a hospital to get a CT scan because I was having mad headaches, which my family doctor wouldn't refer me. The scan was normal. Finally, I found a doctor who's willing to refer me MRI scan. After waiting for couple of months, the result didn't turn up anything again. Keep in mind I've been suffering 2 - 3 hours sleep a day all these time. I also did sleep study, and sleep study mostly care about sleep apnea, so they couldn't identify any causes again. Then I went to see a psychiatrist, more sleeping pills, which are really antidepressants. Eventually, after a long wait, I was referred to a neurologist and sleep specialist. I've done so much research on sleep medicine at this point, I already knew what he's gonna prescribe me - sleep restriction therapy. That didn't really help altho I gave up after trying for two weeks. I intend to try it again but I can't attempt it now that I'm back to work. So one year later, I'm still messed up with no known cause.
I know insomnia in my case is not a traditional disease, but it goes to show you that if you're not having one of the common diseases then you're shit out of luck.
The human body's extremely complex, but instead of using proper debugging tools, doctors are mostly relying on "console logs" or "print statements". Even if a root cause is identified, often time we don't have the necessary tools to fix the problems.
But more than that, we have no idea what depression actually is, and that goes for any other psychiatric disease unrelated to direct brain damage. It would probably be more correct to call these syndromes rather than diseases, as we do not know the mechanisms causing the disease enough to even be sure if 'depression' is a meaningful diagnosis (in the sense that coughing is not a diagnosis).
We also don't have proper neurological studies of emotional illnesses - there are basically no comparative neurological studies of people diagnosed with depression versus people showing similar symptoms who are expected to quickly recover (for example, people grieving for a lost one). We don't know whether the brain chemistry changes we see in depression are the cause of the disease, or just the way 'sadness'/'lack of motivation' looks like neuro-chemically.
I mean we know what they do chemically, but as you said we have no idea what serotonin does. (Which is not true, but it's so complicated that what we know just makes us exhausted thinking about how truly complicated it is.)
> We don't know whether the brain chemistry changes we see in depression are the cause of the disease, or just the way 'sadness'/'lack of motivation' looks like neuro-chemically.
Indeed. Though it's always both. And probably asking whether we could, let's say take a pill every day as prevention seems unfathomable, because so far - again, just as you said - we don't really know what is depression. It's basically too much of feeling down. Feeling down when you shouldn't really be feeling that down, at least somehow "compared" to other people. So it's hard to know when prevention should start and when it's just normal case of the mondays.
However, just as with the nurture-nature conundrum it seems natural to treat it as one thing very tightly coupled with the other. Which makes it likely that any kind of treatment and understanding has to always handle both in a lockstep. (Even if there are a lot of subgroups, some are more susceptible on the chemistry side, some more on the cognitive side, some are simply resilient enough to deal with it with some light touch counseling, some got a very bad ticket in life and need a whole support network to keep the darkness at bay, etc.)
I suspect the doctors of the 23rd century will be similarly horrified by their 21st century counterparts practices.
Galen was a pretty accomplished medical researcher, and Roman-era medical implements were quite sophisticated, and were well-established by the time of the dark ages. By the late dark ages, we also saw a lot of modern medical techniques coming in from the Middle East.
There's this stereotype of people being filthy, ignorant, and dumb, but it's not really true. And for many of the bad practices from then do persist in poorer parts of the world today affecting likely around a billion people (and some, like homeopathy, even in wealthy parts).
Note that I'm not weighing in on the overall debate about where modern medicine is relative to the dark ages. We've made a lot of progress. I'm just refuting the stereotype of the dark ages.
Were those implements actually practiced throughout the dark ages or did they go the way of the Roman road networks?
When people talk of the dark ages they're usually talking of post-Roman Western Europe rather than Asia or the Middle East. I'm not sure if a Bohemian peasant living in 1000 AD would've benefited much from Islamic medicine advancements.
One of the reason for the decline of the term "dark ages" is that there is increasing evidence that people in this period didn't actually crawl under a rock of ignorance. Large-scale armies and infrastructure projects were gone, but at the same time, a lot more knowledge persisted than is given credit for -- the sorts of things which don't require a massive Roman central government administration to maintain.
"One of the reason for the decline of the term "dark ages" is that there is increasing evidence that people in this period didn't actually crawl under a rock of ignorance."
Despite my use of 'Dark Ages', I cannot agree with you more. Perhaps you might like to look at this image of a shoulder-clasp from Britain's Sutton Hoo Hoard (it's one of many). Considering both its age and the time in which it was created (and the limited tool available then), to me, this is one of the most remarkable and beautiful objects I've ever seen. It sends shivers down my back when I think of the sheer talent that created it. We are so lucky it's survived essentially intact across the last one and half millennia:
https://www.ancient.eu/image/5107/the-sutton-hoo-shoulder-cl...
(Make sure you click on the image to get the largest view.)
Using nuclear radiation to "cure" cancer. Giving patients highly addictive narcotics for pain relief. Giving patients broad-spectrum antibiotics. And don't get me started on the insanity of current events, with mass over-use of disinfectants, conflicting and dubious public health guidelines (Covid 19 spreads 3M in Europe but only 6ft. in the USA, N95 masks don't prevent infection but surgical masks work great, viruses don't spread while sitting but spread while standing in a restaurant). Dark ages? No. But I can see the parallels.
For example,
>Giving patients highly addictive narcotics for pain relief.
Is the opioid epidemic modern medicine's fault? Or is it more the fault of doctors who over-prescribe coupled with the lack of a sane healthcare system?
Also, are there viable (read: equally effective) alternatives to opioids for pain relief?
>Giving patients broad-spectrum antibiotics
Is the rise of antibiotic-resistant bacteria modern medicine's fault? Or is it more the fault of patients who do not finish out their full regimen?
And again, are there viable alternatives to broad-spectrum antibiotics?
>Covid 19 spreads 3M in Europe but only 6ft. in the USA
Distancing guidelines were meant to provide a general reference point, not magical thresholds at which COVID is incapable of passing over... They're going for a distance that is easily visualized, is situated well up on the "diminishing returns" curve, and (when combined with other measures like wearing a mask) provides an "acceptable" risk of exposure.
Sneezing, for one example, will throw respiratory droplets much further than the recommendation for social distancing.
>N95 masks don't prevent infection but surgical masks work great
I'd like to see a source for this claim if you don't mind, as a quick perusal of the FDA[0] and CDC[1][2] do not show this statement anywhere. Everything I've found states they're fairly equally effective. Everything I've found also says that N95 and surgical masks are not recommended for use outside a profession which requires them:
Q: Should I purchase personal protective equipment such as facemasks or N95 respirators for me and my family?
A: No. Surgical masks and N95s need to be reserved for use by health care workers, first responders, and other frontline workers whose jobs put them at much greater risk of acquiring COVID-19. The cloth face coverings recommended by CDC are not surgical masks or N95 respirators. Surgical masks and N95s are critical supplies that must continue to be reserved for health care workers and other medical first responders, as recommended by CDC.
--
CDC does not recommend using masks for source control if they have an exhalation valve or vent.
Masks are not surgical masks or respirators. Currently, those are critical supplies that should continue to be reserved for healthcare workers and other medical first responders, as recommended by current CDC guidance. Masks also are not appropriate substitutes for them in workplaces where surgical masks or respirators are recommended or required and available.
--
CDC also links to a study[3] that found "Surgical and N95 masks were equally effective in preventing the spread of PCR-detectable influenza". There are plenty of related studies which come to the same conclusion.
>viruses don't spread while sitting but spread while standing in a restaurant
Again, how is this a "modern medicine" issue, or a "conflicting and dubious public health guideline"? They're not saying "the virus won't spread as long as you're sitting down!", they're saying "if you fucks have to go out, at least try to stay apart for everyone else's sake".
[0] https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coro.... [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si... [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19522650/
I wouldn't call that medicine. I'd call that, maybe, "research biomedical science".
I think OP's comment is precisely that the practice of medicine has very little to do with what top-quality research would prescribe, and is more like medieval reasoning (like causes like, etc.).
Of course the reason behind this is that we dont have much top-quality research; and what "research" we often have is poorly executed and ambiguous (if honest).
What we "need" is 10k "disposable humans" manufactured on-demand, for 100k RCT experiments. What we have is often much closer to astrology.
Yes, there are "parallels to the Dark Ages" in the sense that "medical practitioners prescribe treatment based on the best information available at the time".
That doesn't mean medical knowledge, practice, research, and equipment has been stagnant or that medical practitioners should not be trusted with their advice.
Statements like "the lunacy of modern medicine" are not truthful and not productive, especially when the minimal supporting evidence for the statements are misleading at best.
Or, in the case of cancers like multiple myeloma, killing all immune cells and replacing the stem cells.
The future of cancer therapy is likely to be heavily reliant on customization and precise drug delivery, to give an overwhelming dose of poison to the cancer without harming the patient.
There is a lot in the dark and we should not hesistate to point it out. It would be a lie to paper over the cracks with yet another affirmation about it all being figured out and we can go back to sleep.
I'm not sure it's entirely on point, but ever since my mother was almost murdered by medical malpractice, and then learning about exactly how bad (frequent and severe) medical malpractice is, it's extremely hard for me to not see it this way.
Somewhere close to 300,000 people die a year from medical malpractice, give or take ~50k! Even adjusting for the elderly and comorbidities the number is still huge. I don't know why I never did, but it keep thinking I need to go buy and read Bruce Schneiers book about outliers[1]... it seems crazy how much we ignore much more concrete and repeated issues that cause death and love to focus on outliers that will probably never happen to us.
1. https://www.amazon.com/Liars-Outliers-Enabling-Society-Thriv...
Further reading: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/are-medical-errors-really-t...
Takeaway:
> (1) [Adverse Effects of Medical Treatment] are not uncommon; (2) the vast majority of AEMTs that occur in patients who die aren’t the primary cause of death; (3) only a relatively small fraction of AEMTs are due to misadventure or medical error; and (4) population-adjusted AEMT rates have been slowly decreasing
Every now and then I see a comment that makes me think HN is closer to Facebook than we like to think it is.