Hacker News Reader

Comment by jlebar | Hacker News Reader

So for example, you're saying that in workplaces where women are in the minority, they are better off in a place where they're not allowed to advocate for their own rights (inside and outside the workplace)?

Wouldn't they be better off in a workplace where they could, you know, ask for the things that they think would make them better off?

View on HN

> ...and outside the workplace...

You appear to be moving the goalpost here. Or perhaps I was my fault for not being clear. My policy was referring specifically to discussing politics within the workplace.

As for your question, everyone is of course allowed to ask for more pay. This is not what I'd call politics, but simply salary negotiation. If you're suggesting something different. Then yes, you generally aren't going to help yourself within an organization by calling your boss a sexist who needs to promise to stop being a sexist. Or whatever it is you're specifically proposing.

> they are better off in a place where they're not allowed to advocate for their own rights (inside and outside the workplace)?

Sorry, I think I was unclear. I meant, discussing inside the workplace issues that are relevant to their lives inside and outside work.

> As for your question, everyone is of course allowed to ask for more pay. This is not what I'd call politics, but simply salary negotiation.

OK. Let's take it a few steps further?

Are women allowed to say, "you know, women are paid less than men for most jobs in this country, let's advocate that this not be the case at our company?" Are they allowed to say, "you know, our company shouldn't be supporting X politician, because they're not in favor of equal pay for equal work?" Are they allowed to say, "you know, just as our company advocates for laws and regulations that we think are beneficial to our core technical business (software or whatever), we should also advocate for laws and regulations that are good for our people, like paid maternity leave."

And, just step back: Does it give you any pause that we're having a conversation about what what women are allowed to say?

Let's. Men are not allowed to say such things either, or the opposite views. So no, it is not a problem but a way to prevent problems.

unishark's comment was about people with minority viewpoints, not people who are part of a visible minority. For example, a woman might be the only female in a programming team, and therefore a visible minority, but her views on what gender equality means might be shared by most of the rest of the team, meaning tha she does not have a minority viewpoint.

So you're saying, (WLOG) women who happen to disagree with the prevailing (male) viewpoint are better off in offices which disallow discussion of politics. Because by telling everyone that they can't talk about political issues relevant to women, they don't have to shoulder the burden of the majority disagreeing with them?

But...by assumption, the majority disagrees with them? I don't get it.

I mean, just hypothetically, suppose some group was discriminated against at work. Women, Black folks, LGBTQ folks, folks with disabilities, whatever. This discrimination is "political", in that Serious Politicians disagree about whether it's right. I hope you don't think this is a stretch. You're saying that in a world where they couldn't advocate for themselves by talking about the issues they face, they'd be better off?

If this is about what's best for them, why not let them choose? Do we have to be the gatekeepers of what's good for them or not?

Conservative women are probably better off in offices which disallow discussion of politics.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com