And how do you deal with the other side of "unfair" behaviour, e.g. excessive flagging or downvoting for legitimate posts or comments. As far as I'm aware there isn't any evidence required to downvote or flag.
The main thing to understand is that we need something to look at other than just an opinion that one commenter was expressing which another commenter didn't like. That's evidence only of difference-of-opinion, not abuse.
Such data isn't always secret and isn't always just on HN. For example, if someone is asking for HN upvotes on Twitter, we sometimes get links from eagle-eyed HNers. Similarly when someone is sending out spam emails trying to organize a voting ring. And sometimes spammers copy comments from other forums and paste them into HN. Those are pretty basic examples but I hope you can see that in each case there is some objective data that supports a judgment of abuse.
Conversely, suppose you like $BigCo and someone else hates $BigCo, sees your comment praising them, and replies "how much are they paying you, shill?" That's the kind of thing we don't allow, because there's literally nothing supporting that judgment. The same type of commenter will see various comment arguing for $BigCo in HN threads and then post to other threads with high confidence that "HN is overrun with astroturfing". What they mean is that it's overrun with comments they don't like—and even then, "overrun" is an exaggeration.
What about the other side of it though? your reply didn't really address it.
What I feel is happening now is that in those situations (and others), people downvote and flag things that they don't agree with. They're not shouting "shills / astroturfing" yet the collective power makes it easy to silence opposing opinions, especially if those opinions are in a minority.
Completely anecdotal, but I reported to you two cases of flagged stories that in my opinion had value in them for the community (and in the discussions around them). Those stories were effectively silenced. I think it's a shame. There's no evidence require to flag or downvote, there's no requirement to even give an argument/reasoning for doing it.
Are there any plans to tackle this kind of behaviour in a similar way that empty/non-evidence-based claims of astroturfing and shilling is dealt with?
My first name @push.cx if you want to share notes on these or other abusive users.
Be kind.
Please don't sneer
Please don't post shallow dismissals
But downvotes are sometimes used unkindly, dismissively and as a way to supress a different view (which may or may not be justified). You nuke me and say why, I'm happy - we can talk! I can learn something new! Downvoting factual posts silently is... frustrating. And ill mannered.
I’m definitely happy that there’s minimum Karma for downvotes, but how does it prevent hive-mind downvoting?
If I was wrong, your response does not elucidate why, in fact let me quote bits back to you "soft conspiracy" ... "very little evidence"[0] ... "a vague sense of wrongness"
Well maybe but your post has less substance than mine.
[0] you didn't ask for any BTW
Imagine if a large corporation bought ~50 old accounts and spoofed different computers/browsers. Only 5 votes is needed to hide a post.
Controlling the narrative is almost trivial if you can spend mere thousands of dollars.