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Comment by matsemann | Hacker News Reader

Euromomo lets one easily compare the mortality for various European countries: https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps . I think this is much easier to grasp than the tables in the linked paper.

The very first graph shows that it's not "just another flu". Abnormally many deaths, even with the strict measures. Mainly for those aged 45 and older (but also not just "old people" dying, lots in the group 45-64).

Further down "Z-scores by country" also shows a pretty normal curve for Norway and Denmark but many excessive deaths for Sweden, meaning the notion of "sweden just reports covid deaths differently" that was common a few months back isn't an explanation.

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When talking about the Sweden don't look just at the current year. Take a lookt at the previous and compare it to the neighbours.

And then see what? https://i.imgur.com/4wNdK1M.png

https://imgur.com/a/sHq3gjp

There you go. Data from official government agency. "Preliminary" and not full year since we're only in October 2020 now.

https://scb.se/hitta-statistik/statistik-efter-amne/befolkni...

> There you go

What am I looking at? What are you trying to show? Just posting a random graph is not really helpful.

I am trying to help you understand the actual death numbers that you were talking about in the thread I commented on (Sweden). Im not sure how data is reported to Euromomo, but sometimes its better to look at data with as few middlemen as possible.

Total (and monthly) deaths per 100k inhabitants, per Jan-Sep period each year. The bar-chart shows the "Total" row from the Excel. Both illustrations have descriptions in English

This is a description of your graph, not an explanation.

Not sure what you are on about. It is an explanation of what he is looking at.

Do you need help interpreting the data and graph given previous conversation? The height of the bars represent the number of deaths over different years and the bars are basically same height. I.e. considering all deaths, covid and actions taken (no lockdown but more distancing), no more than usual have died. Especially considering last year was a bit lower and therefore likely some old people who didnt die last year unfortunately did so this year.

Not sure what you're trying to show, but your screenshot is of a table showing very high excess mortality in Sweden in April. The Euromomo graphs show very high excess mortality in Sweden in April. I got the impression that you were trying to contradict something, but the data you post agree with the other data, so...?

First of all. There is one (perhaps two) month with excess mortality. "very high excess" is not a term I would use since it would leave almost no room between standard variance in death numbers and "high excess" or "medium excess" or "low excess". I see what mind-set you bring into this though - good, you are part of the group I wanted to reach.

I will post what I just posted below: "Do you need help interpreting the data and graph given previous conversation? The height of the bars represent the number of deaths over different years and the bars are basically same height. I.e. considering all deaths, covid and actions taken (no lockdown but more distancing), no more than usual have died. Especially considering last year was a bit lower and therefore likely some old people who didnt die last year unfortunately did so this year."

If you only look at one month then yes there is absolutely an increase. If you want to stare blindly at that month then go ahead. Scream if you want to also. But I think some might be interested in hearing that no more than usual have died in Sweden this year. I have seen similar stats for other countries.

> There is one (perhaps two) month with excess mortality. "very high excess" is not a term I would use...

The mortality this April was 13% higher than the next highest value in the table. 29% higher than the next highest April value in the table. If you really have a problem with "very high", we can agree on "high". But we do agree that (a) this is not just an accident but caused by a real-world cause, (b) that real-world cause is Covid-19, and (c) the spike could have been avoided or at least flattened. Yes?

> good, you are part of the group I wanted to reach.

If you really want to reach us, a good way would be to tell us what you really want to tell us. If what you want to tell us is that Sweden did everything right at all times, you'll have to argue a bit more explicitly.

> no more than usual have died in Sweden this year

Yes. Looks like after its disastrous April Sweden managed a good turnaround.

Im not interested in arguing with you. I wanted to show you the data so you have a chance to make up you own mind. My definition of "really reach us"(you) is that you have some more facts in this crazy world of lies, hysteria and ruined lives+businesses. If you then draw some other conclusion than I do, thats ok.

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