Ask HN: Consumer WiFi router options in 2020 | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Consumer WiFi router options in 2020

30 pointsreaperducer44 comments

It's time to replace my Apple AirPort gear, and I'm having a hard time finding a wifi router that meets what I thought was a fairly low standard: I don't want cloud management, I don't want to create an account to use it, I want something simple (no DIY, no OpenWRT), I want my privacy, and no PoE.

With Apple no longer in this space, I looked at Ubiquiti and its offerings are too enterprisey for my use. Its HD line is five years old. Its Alien isn't available on Amazon, even from UI's own "Buy at Amazon" link, which makes me wonder about it. I read nothing but bad news on HN about Linksys, Netgear, and Cisco, but am keeping an open mind. I can find almost no objective information about TP-Link.

Are there brands or models I'm overlooking?

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IMO, really rethink your position on Ubiquiti. For residential use, you really don't need anything from their HD line. I have no affiliation with them other than being a very happy customer. They literally have a device for almost any networking use-case you can think of. You _do not_ need to use their cloud management capabilities, have an account with Unifi, etc to be able to use it (even though that's what they really want you to do -- I wanted 100% local management for my own setup, so this was a hard requirement for me).

For your purposes, I would highly recommend checking out the Unifi Dream Machine (https://store.ui.com/collections/routing-switching/products/... -- not the Pro unless you already have a network rack). It's as close to an AirPort as you can reasonably get these days. You can also get additional Unifi APs if you need more coverage (including any of their outdoor stuff) or use Unifi LTE as a backup conneciton (https://unifi-lte.ui.com/)

I've installed just the Dream Machine in several family members' homes and it's a huge improvement over the nonsense that the ISPs provide them with. Personally, I run a Unifi Security Gateway, Cloud key (Gen 1), and the AC AP PRO and I've been very happy with it. I like that I can selectively upgrade equipment when needed (for example, I upgraded my AP for better range and speed a couple years ago, but I'm still using the same USG that I got back in 2014 or something).

If you're having trouble figuring out what you need and you want to go the Ubiquiti route, feel free to email me (see profile) and I can get you pointed in the right direction.

It's interesting - as someone in the market (but not actively looking) i glanced at Ubiquiti and found it bizarrely confusing. Granted, i'm definitely no network admin, but i'm just used to the days when i'd hook up a simple Router behind a Modem and get basic firewall, wifi, etc features with a moderately complex and useful admin interface out of the box.

With Ubiquiti i had no clue what i wanted or where i should go. There were all these tradeoffs (Cloud vs not) where i didn't even understand the context for making a decision.

Coming from a simple (old) TP-Link router next to me, the idea of needing some complex setup or an easy "cloud" option both seem bizarre. It's a router.. what is Unifi offering that changes everything so much?

I still plan on eventually going Unifi since all my coworkers recommend it with glowing praise - but i keep kicking that can because every time i open their page it sounds like some big project. I just wanted a replacement Router + ~4-8ports + wifi haha. I probably would have already purchased something from Uniquiti if i had any clue what to buy from them.

If you don't want the all-in-one Dream Machine device (which is good for what it is), here's what you need:

* Unifi Security Gateway (router) * Unifi AP (there are lots of options - for residential uses, you don't need the high density models. I run the AC PRO in my house and I only need one for relatively heavy use. Works great.) * Somewhere to run the Unifi controller. This is the web UI that you'd normally get built in on a consumer router. You can either set this up on a Raspberry Pi or similar device, or you can buy the Cloud Key. The Cloud Key can be used as a gateway for cloud management, but you absolutely _do not_ have to do that. You can treat it as a simple, embedded linux machine that runs the unifi controller software.

That's it. Anything beyond that is optional.

For my setup, I also picked up a cheap PoE switch to power both the cloud key and my AP (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YHLR6V3/), along with a cheap rack mount gigabit switch that all of my wired devices hang off of (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BU0EKW) and tossed it all into a network rack with all the niceties (patch panel, UPS, PDU, and a synology NAS). You definitely don't need anything that elaborate though. The AP comes with a PoE injector, and the cloud key can be powered via a simple USB wall adapter (included, if I recall correctly).

Fellow TP-Link router user checking in and I feel similarly. The bells and whistles on the Dream Machine + Unifi OS are appealing in an ooh-shiny-things way, but I can't help thinking that it's way overkill for a (or at least my) home network. When I'm troubleshooting the network performance at home, it's usually to get housemates back online as quickly as possible. A comprehensive analytics platform is cool, but seems like a distraction compared to the outdated-looking but functional TP-Link interface.

Then there's the tacit upsell of it all. Of course all those bells and whistles are a lot more relevant and useful the more you buy in. If you're going full Smart Home, it's cool that Ubiquiti offers an enterprise-y experience for your residence, but if you just want a cable to the outside world, as OP seems to want, Ubiquiti does seem confusingly elaborate.

(Also I imagine a lot of us spend enough time looking at network analytics at work; I don't want to go to sleep with graphs behind my eyelids.)

I recently switched to the Unifi Dream Machine from AirPort Extreme. I’m thrilled.

The major upgrade for me was the analytics available in the Unifi controller (built-in to UDM).

The analytics (channel scanner especially) enabled me to see the neighboring interference that had degraded the Airport network quality and was causing my devices to act weirdly.

I see WiFi as an arms race. My 5+ year old Airport (802.11ac) is no longer a match against newer ISP gateways with built-in access points. The UDM (802.11ac Wave 2) not only competes properly, but can analyze any future problems that will occur as neighbors change out their equipment.

Thanks for the suggestion. I looked it up on Amazon, and the reviews are brutal.

But more and more it's looking like Ubiquiti and Unifi are the only real contenders, and whatever I buy may suck or it may not. It's just the luck of the draw.

I've had plenty of frustrations with it. But AFAICT it's the best on-ramp to the Unifi ecosystem.

It's a new system, and it shows – plenty of rough edges. For example, ethernet connection drops between my Thunderbolt dock and the UDM (resolved by sticking a switch in-between).

There's a learning curve for sure. It will be tough if you aren't already strong with basic networking concepts.

It's also frustrating to run into Ubiquiti forum posts that don't apply to the UDM, because it doesn't expose the same low-level config tooling as their other products. I can't fix my VLAN-mDNS troubles due to that.

Over time, I expect to replace the router/gateway responsibilities with Protectli hardware and OPNsense. But at least now I have solid WiFi to build upon.

If you're up for a bit of tinkering, I definitely recommend the USG/AP/Cloud key combo over the Dream Machine. All-in-one devices are never going to be as good as separate single purpose components, but if an all-in one is what you want, the Dream Machine is the best one out there as far as I can tell.

I mistakenly followed recommendations to go with Ubiquiti for my home routing setup. Got a USG, AP, and switch. It's the most unnecessarily complicated bullshit ever. Sure, you have way more agency to customize anything you want, but the benefit to the average person is arguably negative. Not to mention having to have 3 boxes all wires together rather than just one single unit.

My understanding is that the long and short of it is that you should not try to get a WiFi router at all and instead have a wired router and one AP. There is nothing inherently making it a bad idea to bundle those things in one device, but unless you want to go down the DIY rabbit hole, the AIO options are generally not great.

Manufacturers I think you should consider would be MikroTik, and Netgear's business and SOHO ranges (one step up from the normal consumer stuff).

If you're set on a consumer WiFi router device, Unifi is your best bet. Other than that, Linksys and Asus aren't that horrible, relatively speaking, and you can pick a device with good Open/DDWRT support if you retire it or change your mind down the line.

How important the above is also depends a lot on your requirements in terms of # connections, throughout, and consistency.

Surprised nobody has mentioned ASUS here. I have an old 66CU that’s been powering away for around five years now. One of the benefits of ASUS routers is you get to run the awesome Merlin-WRT custom firmware which makes great improvements on what ASUS offers out the box.

Also running an ASUS router, but mine’s on stock firmware. I believe the model number on mine is 68CU. It’s been rock solid for like 5 years now.

It meets all of OP’s requirements as far as I can tell. My favorite feature is that it has USB ports in the back where you can attach discs/printers and share them on the network easily.

I was a bit shocked to discover that Google Wifi actually performed worse than my (7 year old?) Airport Extreme. And it pretty much requires you to login if you want to do anything more than basic setup

My experience was completely opposite. Airport out, Google Wifi in and it just works. Otoh, I implemented a three node mesh.

I tried the Google mesh router and returned it. Performance was Ok. Not any better than a mid-tier home router for a third of the cost. But main issue was that all the configuration has to be done via the Home mobile app. No web interface for configuration. Also things like port forwarding or setting isp static ip options are hidden away and only available after initial setup has completed. which again , is a wizard UI on a mobile app and provides very little control.

I haven’t found a one stop solution for a good home router yet, but I’ve played with most of the popular brands at this point.

The biggest requirement I have is CAKE [1] support as I think it’s an absolutely incredible feature that makes non gigabit/upload limited connections with multiple users much more usable.

Unfortunately, this limits us to a few routers. OpenWRT does it wonderfully, but OpenWRT is only a great choice if you’re a rather technical user and can be around to upgrade it/futz with it as needed. Ubiquiti doesn’t have support yet (I think the edge router has some custom packages you can install, but these aren’t official last I checked).

Eero does support this, and is my current recommendation, but it is worth noting that Eero is locking features behind a subscription plan that costs up to 10$ a month. Want adblocking, a feature that other routers are now adding for free? You have to pay. I seriously doubt this plan is ever going to work for them, but keep it in mind. I’m guessing it’ll eventually morph into a “sign in with your Amazon Prime account” style thing for bonus features/selling your DNS/tracking data to Amazon, but who knows.

Thus, I think Eero is a great stopgap for the next 1-2 years until Ubiquiti stabilizes their Amplifi line and/or finally adds CAKE to the Unifi stuff.

[1] https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/codel/wiki/Cake/

I find it interesting that the Amplifi pack costs $120 more on Amazon than on the Amplifi web site.

I prefer to order something like this from Amazon, since if it blows I can sent it back. I've seen unpleasant things about the return policies router companies have these days.

I installed the Amplifi Gamer edition a year or two ago and have been quite disappointed. Eero has been much better. The Amplifi Teleport feature is quite nice, but I still think Ubiquiti is experimenting with the Amplifi line and probably won’t support these units too long. Just my theory.

I’ve been using a trio of Orbi’s for about a year now. They’re pretty solid.

Every once in a while I have to power cycle the bunch, but it’s getting longer between each time (presumably because the firmware updates are working).

Overall they work pretty well for a consumer product and I think they meet all your requirements.

MikroTik may be an option. I use one in a small office setting without any big complaints.

I'm a huge fan of MikroTik. The RB4011 is fantastic router at the price point and even has a 10G SFP+ port. Great hardware.

The configuration UI isn't the best, but they also have a full scriptable CLI that isn't too bad. Huge future set. I just wish they would move the newest version (7) along quicker in development.

Big fan of MikroTik myself, but the scripting language can be pretty finicky and has a somewhat steep learning curve. I won't claim I've mastered it, but after a couple of months of working with it, I still feel handicapped by the syntax, quirks, and general lack of usability.

For example, this is how I'm finding the subnet mask from a string like "192.168.1.0/24" in a script I recently wrote (I think I got this from a forum post, but I can't find it anymore.)

:local mask do={ :return (255.255.255.255 << (32 - [:pick $1 ([:find $1 "/"] + 1) [:len $inet]]))}

I looked at MicroTik, and its prices are between half and 10x less than the other brands. How is this possible? It makes me worry about the quality.

Mostly by keeping the organization lean. Which means that customer support staff is near non-existent and in case you need support you're pretty much on your own with their wiki and the forums. That, or hiring one of their third party certified partners.

However, the capabilities you get out of the router are very good at that price point.

The very cheapest stuff they sell certainly has compromises: their low end APs have 100Mbit Ethernet and 802.11n (with no 5GHz support), for example. The upside is SoCs that integrate all of this funactionality are only a few dollars, so they can sell entire routers for $20-30 on the cheap end.

I just replaced my router with Google 3 point mesh. Installation was a snap. You do need a google account and you have to use the Google WiFi app.

So it fails both the "I don't want to create an account to use it" and the "I want my privacy" requirements.

Not OP, but for me the ‘it just works’ aspect of Google Wifi fully makes all other aspect of the device irrelevant. I’m quite happy with my 3 node mesh. When combined with gigabit landline it’s great.

Yes

Eero is well reviewed but it may require an account. I know Nest Wifi requires a Google account so you can skip that one.

Eero has been great to me, but yes, it requires an account.

Another vote for Eero. It does require an account, though.

Netgear has been dissopointing for me. I like to load up DD-WRT but it's getting harder to make things work these days. One of the feature I want is ability to see usage report per device, especially for kids devices. This is so badly implemented in most routers. Netgear app for this is an absolute joke.

What features are you looking for? Wifi range/bandwidth? Security? Advanced routing?

I upgraded my range by adding a couple of Unifi AP's to my existing ISP router. It was less of a commitment than a UDM, and I originally just set them up in standalone mode with no account or cloud presence.

What about Turris Omnia or Mox?

With Ubiqiti being "too enterprisy," I suspect Turris Omnia has long gone out of the window.

Eero. One hundred percent. I also used to screw around with ubiquiti. Eero just works. The SW Engineer posts extensively on Reddit about how they do stuff too.

I went with Eero, too. I had full Ubiquity setup going strong for five years. No complaints. But then I set my parents up with Eero to improve their coverage and give me something easy to manage. Couldn’t believe how easy it was to set up and how well it worked.

I needed a better way to set some parental controls, so I switched to Eero, too. No noticeable difference in performance from Ubiquity. I went with the standard 3-unit setuo to continue using my wired network throughout. The Pro AP units cannot be wired, for some reason.

Www.badrouterlist.co.uk

Try this guide. Focussed on Uk, but should work elsewhere. :)

check out GL inet, which has a (FLOSS) GUI on top of openWRT for easy config. it also has the ability (from the GUI) to act as a wireguard VPN.

I personally use the Google Wifi.

Asus, or Fritz!box

Nokia

MikroTik

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