The Death of the Full Moon Party | Hacker News Reader

The Death of the Full Moon Party

bbc.co.uk

36 pointscmsefton63 comments

The article mentions Thailand's plan to invite long-stay tourists willing to go through a 14-day quarantine on arrival. It was supposed to start this week, but was pushed back at last minute, officially because the arrangements were not ready but quite probably because they couldn't actually find enough interest. (In addition to the quarantine, you can only arrive by dedicated chartered aircraft!?)

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/thailand-foreign-t...

I think there could be enough interest if managed well, but unfortunately they make the process very complicated and then the quarantine is overly strict (you can't order food from outside, no alcohol, not allowed to open the windows) and other shenanigans like prebooking all hotels, wearing gps-wristbands. Most of the people interested in this already live in Thailand (but got stuck abroad unable to return) on tourist or other visas and would rent apartments, and not stay in hotel rooms.

I do have some Thai friends, and a few pinoys who work in Thailand so I am familiar with the rules and quarantaine process. You are right about those rules, but ordering Grab Food is possible. You can also register 2 'family members' (aren't checked) that are able to bring you stuff. And of course with a bit of monetary courage you are pretty much free to bring them whatever they want.

> Most of the people interested in this already live in Thailand (but got stuck abroad unable to return) on tourist or other visas and would rent apartments, and not stay in hotel rooms.

Am in a similar predicament with my “base” in Hong Kong. It is very frustrating.

There were a lot of terms and conditions attached when I last saw the plan. I was in Thailand Mar-Jun and if it was just a 14 day quarantine and then you are free to go where you want I might go back but I read "Applicants for the visa will have to book a hotel or private accommodation for the full 90 days in order to qualify." I'm not surprised that not many people fit with that. I read somewhere they have had 50 applicants total.

I considered trying to apply for this STV (Special Tourist Visa) but was put off by the private plane or a chartered plane. But then someone told me that the chartered plane is arranged by the Thai embassy from the country where you are staying.

It doesn't change much of the situation of course, but they don't expect you to arrange a charter flight yourself.

After years of being against all of those visa-runners and digital nomads of all kinds I am a bit skeptical of Thai goverment actually wanting long-stay tourists.

They were actually quite tolerant of the visa runners. I used an organised service where they drove you to a park on the Myanmar border, you exited Thailand, 5 mins later re-entered Thailand, had a coffee then got the bus back. They could be like Europe and ban you for 90 days after you've been there for 90 days if they wanted to.

You can get away with this twice. Once you hit 180 days in the last year you'll face some probing questions as to exactly what you're doing, and you better have a good answer or they'll simply deny re-entry.

With this being Thailand, of course there's going to be some wriggle room and variation depending on who you get, but it's a pretty high risk roll of the dice.

It's always been fairly easy to just get a multiple entry "Non-B" visa instead of relying on visa waiver, and then no questions asked.

I'm thinking the real benefit of allowing people to stay given they do visa runs, is that it's a way of setting expectations. If you want to kick out someone who has lived in the country for a long time, you don't get as much resistance, since you were upfront about their stay being precarious.

Also I guess it makes it easy to do selective enforcement against troublesome people.

Unpopular opinion: If you're a "digital nomad", you're not a tourist. You're working.

I think it is arguable[0] whether the (preexisting in many countries) letter of immigration law with blanket “do you work or not” actually aligns with the spirit of the law, which may have well been intended to be “do you work in our country” but was not written the former way because of remote work not being so widespread at the time.

I believe the smoke test for tourist status, as applied to digital nomads, is whether one’s customers/employer are companies with official representation in chosen country of residence. If not, they are (1) not stealing jobs from locals, and (2) actually boosting local economy, infusing it with cash earned overseas.

Possibly hinting at this are also recent programs in some countries[1] that in a way encourage “digital nomadism”, offering terms that are actually more beneficial compared to tourist status (e.g., longer stay times).

[0] Of course, this argument most likely won’t fly if the immigration officer is out to get you. IANAL.

[1] Georgia comes to mind

Yes, but you're not paying taxes in the country whose infrastructure you rely on. So there are some locals who consider the nomads to be freeloaders of some sorts, and that isn't entirely without merit.

I do agree with you, but for Thailand (and many other countries) 'Digital nomad' isn't a thing. You are there either as a tourist, or you are there for business. If it is for business you will need to have a registered business, freelancing doesn't qualify.

I tried to fly there on a business visa but I wasn't able to get one because Thailand doesn't recognise a 'self employed' person as a business.

In theory yes, although you probably want to declare yourself as tourist in many countries, unless you want to have some fun with local authorities.

.. until they find out you've been working without a visa, which (while unlikely) will result in even more "fun".

(I do side-eye people who refer to westerners working illegally in the non-west as "digital nomads" while referring to non-westerners doing the same in the west as "illegals")

The "digital nomad" community certainly isn't limited to Westerners. There are quite a few digital nomads from Arab nations. And though Indians have weak passports and can't travel to too many countries visa-free, you still meet many Indian DNs in e.g. Nepal.

Sure, and I am not advocating to do it illegally, just making the point that what one states at the border can have wider consequences that one imagines.

> while referring to non-westerners doing the same in the west as "illegals"

Do digital nomads have employers?

It's a grey area. What if you go see some tourist sites but think about work a bit? It's not clear where you draw the line.

I would look at where you pay your taxes.

That's true by definition? But you're probably not displacing jobs for the locals, which is the typical justification for why it's hard for foreigners to get local work permits.

The rationale I've seen is that you're contributing less (risk-adjusted) to the country's economy than either a tourist (who would be spending more) or someone on a work visa (who would have a stable job and be paying local taxes) would.

The belief that DNs necessarily pay less than tourists is largely based on stereotypes. In order to be able to focus on work, DNs tend to look for full apartment rentals, often in relatively upscale places where fast and reliable internet is guaranteed. In many countries that means they are already paying less than ordinary backpackers who are staying in hostel accommodation.

"by definition" always depends on the definition. Tax laws, immigration, I'd say all our reality isn't updated to "people working remotely".

If you detach your job from your (real) environment, this introduces all kinds of issues. You don't pay the share to one of the societies you're embedded into, like taxes. You'd have to be registered as workforce - which you're not, if you're a tourist.

"Long" here is a 90-day visa renewable twice, so max 270 days. So no, they definitely don't want people to migrate permanently.

I think renewable might mean you can add another 90 days WITHOUT having to leave. When you hit the border and return, it might be considered a 'new' application.

'Inland' renewability is a big deal if you technically have to 14d quarantine whenever entering the country.

Different situation now because instead of being overrun by tourists, they don't have many and the country relies heavily on tourism for revenue.

This is very good news. Full moon parties are not the stuff of legend, but rather the lowest point of party tourism in Thailand. Although I think that, give it 5 years, something similar will pop-up somewhere in SEA.

So, the answer to that for you would be to just not go. Thailand is more than just one beach. Many people enjoy this party, I met one girl in Thailand who was a local and loved it, I don't see why you'd be happy about other people not getting the opportunity to do something they enjoy.

I am happy about people doing the things they enjoy, but I’m still free to think that this kind of parties are not good for the environment and for the development in tourism in Thailand, as they favor a type of mass-tourism based on drugs and alcohol binging that has nothing to do with discovering the beauty and the people of one of my favorite countries in the world.

I agree. Unfortunately, equivalents already exist in many places: Cambodia, India, Indonesia, Philippines, Taiwan... with Vietnam well on the way.

I was at part of one in 2018 and while not really my cup of tea I'm not sure what's so bad about having dance music and drinking on a beach once a month. Personally I'd prefer a bit quieter and able to chat rather than nightclub volume techno stuff.

>> I was at part of one in 2018 and while not really my cup of tea I'm not sure what's so bad about having dance music and drinking on a beach once a month.

You make it sound like a childrens' party, but my experience from living on an island with a notorious beach resort (Kavos, in Corfu) is that people drink way more than they can handle, vomit everywhere, assault someone, break something, get in a fight, injure themselves or others, pass out on the street and leave a horrible mess of trash, sick and piss behind them.

And often don't even know where they are, literally, because they boarded their plane already off their tits and went back with three months' worth of hangover and never had the chance to visit places or see sights, or anything else than drink themselves blind.

Covid just puts the risk of spreading infection cherry on top of the public nuissance cake.

In the Philippines, Boracay used to be a party destination but the govt banned parties last year.

Or this one in Laos that got shutdown.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/07/vang-vieng-lao...

That was quite a different thing to the Koh Phangan full moon parties. Though they both featured young western tourists drinking a bit much.

I was there 2 years ago, its a beautiful place. One of my fav in Laos. Shame it will be remember in years to come by those incidents.

Oh man I really loved Laos, I'd be interested in knowing about some other beautiful there. I went to Vang Vieng, did the tubing, left the food area half a hour before the cops rolled ~80 euros for $200usd. I could go on, that was a very strange first 24hrs. Best bit was riding out to some hill, having lunch and looking at a cave. I met some sketchy characters there though and I can't blame them for shutting it down, free local booze+ cheap booze+ river+ high rope jumps definitely led to some injuries.

What's the equivalent in Vietnam?

Maybe. Maybe not. Love Parade died out too with no replacement

Zürich Street Parade is almost as big, and equally fun. 1M attendees over 1 day in a city of 400k. It's insanity. Loved going a few years.

Zug der Liebe does exist. (Well not this year obviously)

I've been living on Koh Phangan since March. AMA

Are Eden / Guys Bar open?

They were open until a few weeks ago. Now closed for rainy season like every year around this time. Guys bar has been mostly off since march. Eden full on past couple of months.

They did switch to day time party from 11 am - 2 am-ish, as night time party is (was) not allowed

Ps: 7 years and counting Koh Phangan resident here.

Asking the important questions...

Have you talked with local Thais about the border closures and if so, how do they feel about letting in foreigners (or not)?

What have all the Western Scuba instructors been up to during the pandemic?

7 year Koh Phangan resident here.

Like the rest of us. From march to June the whole island just stayed at home in volunteer self-quarantine. Because of that Corona never arrived here and life is sort of returned to normal. Of course, no new people arrives, because the borders to Thailand are still closed, so it starts to be pretty empty with people on this island and most people are struggling.

For many months all beaches was closed so they have not been able to get into the water.

I haven't spoken to any on Koh Phangan. On Koh Tao (an hour away with boat) they are broke and there's no work. I would guess the situation is the same for diving instructors on Koh Phangan.

I have the feeling that half of the foreigners are broke as they rely on tourism, the other half are doing fine as they're working remotely, how accurate is my assessment?

Wow. A quick glance at the picture shows about a million guys and 4 girls, I think.

I believe this party would have died of natural causes after a while. I can't imagine it would go on organically.

Contrary to popular belief, not all parties are held in order to find ephemeral sexual mates.

Also, gay guys exist and party quite a lot.

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