Comment by jeromec | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jeromec | Hacker News Reader

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phlux, didn't we have this argument before? ;)

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2061369

To try and clarify further: ideas are not worthless, but they also don't have value. How can that be? Simple, unless an idea is coupled with execution its value is zero. This is what leads to the phrase 'ideas are worthless' which is misleading IMO when phrased that way.

> why arent the millions of developers constantly outdoing themselves with utterly amazing work

That statement is flawed on many levels. First, the percentage of the population with a high level understanding of technology is small, and the percentage of those who are developers is smaller, and the percentage of those that are great developers is smaller still. So saying "the millions of developers" like there really are that many working directly on tech innovation in Silicon Valley and elsewhere in the US is questionable at best.

Now, if you're asking why don't the "great" proportion of developers do amazing work the answer is that they do. They are the reason you can view and post on Hacker News with a working OS, or listen to thousands of songs on a device as small as your hand, and on that same device check email, play games, download thousands of apps, and make phone calls, etc. In other words, great developers are busy building things. Many amazing things. Some developers build things for companies, and some venture out on their own to build new and innovative things like Twitter, Groupon, or Facebook, some of which work and many which don't. But there certainly are many amazing pieces of technology that have been built so far, and there are many more to come... These won't all come at the same time, but the tinkerers are out there... building, trying, failing, and trying again. They are doing the hard work of executing, and for a small fraction of them, it will pay off.

Edit: Let me put the idea challenge back on you, phlux. If your belief is "idea" people are certainly only held back from their $ millions in success by not being developers, why don't they borrow, sell, or mortgage $50K on their house etc. and just get the idea built and cash in? It's that easy, right?

Ok, I think I need to clarify what I believe an "idea" to be. So, this is both to you and Random42...

To Random42's point, simply having an idea like: "Wouldn't it be cool if cars could fly" is obviously worthless.

I think that I was not clear enough:

I think of an idea as a vetted plan. An idea, based on an understanding of a problem and a market, a vision on how it will make money. A design a spec and even mock-ups.

Far more than a simple statement of wishful thinking.

For me, whenever I have "an idea" I take it as far as I can take it sans having it developed.

For example, I have a current "idea" in the medical space (which is where my current full time focus is) that is a patient entertainment system.

This idea is based on several years of full time health care systems design experience designing two hospitals each with a budget of more than $500 million. It is an iterative evolution of a previous idea which we implemented and built and released open source, and a solid understanding of the market, the challenges and the sales cycle. Further, it is arrived at with the inclusion of hospital IT and Clinical staff that I have worked with on two projects -- and input from the founder of one of the existing market leading companies in this space.

I have a product spec, financial model, business plan and mock-ups.

This is my "idea" -- it is not worthless because it is a proven, fully informed documented product plan.

I still need development and a host of other things to accomplish this.

I have millions of simple wishful thinking ideas as well, but for anything that has value - real potential I go through the above.

I apparently was not clear with what I thought an idea was... I hope this makes my perspective a little more clear.

> For me, whenever I have "an idea" I take it as far as I can take it sans having it developed.

But that's the problem. You know why? Because anybody can do this. You can have one million people do this, for one million years, and you know what you'd end up with? Nothing.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that you also attach careful research to your idea, but that only serves to lessen the risk you've overlooked obvious reasons for it to fail. It doesn't mean it won't fail. If your idea was guaranteed to succeed then crossing over into development wouldn't be a problem. You'd be able to get the money somehow. I know many ordinary people who have set aside as much as $50-100K just by being focused. Or you could get investment, or a SBA backed bank loan. But idea people won't actually work to do these things, because they know the truth: their idea may end up failing (being worthless when actually tried). Either that or the other truth: even once an idea is developed it takes time and effort to grow it into a success.

Um, no. I am building this. I am not just sitting around thinking up some idea and wishing it were true.

I am very early in my own development abilities, but I have a technical co-founder, a hospital that has agreed to pilot this and experience in my field which informed the design of the idea.

I think I see way to much arrogance on HN. It appears that you guys are so eager to try to find why things shouldn't be built, when maybe its better to figure out why things should.

I love how you all assume that one comes up with an idea, then just sits around and attempts to wish it into existence.

Lets take a poll. How many of you here think of yourself as a mediocre developer?

I'm willing to bet that many are under the impression they are some Ninja Star developer and that NOTHING in this world can possibly work unless you personally come up with it.

> Um, no. I am building this. I am not just sitting around thinking up some idea and wishing it were true.

Well, now we're talking! :)

You are under the wrong impression. It's not that hackers don't want to see idea people succeed, it's that we don't have much respect for people who are on the sidelines and all talk with no action. I'm a developer, but first and foremost I'm an entrepreneur. If a person is willing to put their neck on the line while facing risk and uncertainty, they have my respect. I don't care if they can't even set up a Wordpress blog.

I wish you best of luck with your venture! It's not about arrogance; it's about action. You're in the club as far as I'm concerned.

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